captioning provided by the freedom forum first amendment center welcome to speaking freely, a weekly conversation about the first amendment, the arts, and american culture. i'm ken paulson, executive director of the first amendment center. david crosby has written and performed some of the most powerful music of the past 35 years. throughout his solo career and his years with the byrds; crosby, stills, nash, and young; and now cpr, he's demonstrated that music can make a difference. now he's teamed with david bender, a founding contributing editor for george magazine, to write stand and be counted: making music, making history. welcome, gentlemen. it's a book about courageous musicians and courageous music, and at a time when i read on the front page of the new york times that record companies are routinely self-censoring themselves to enhance marketability of music, why this project, why the book, and why the television show now? well, to pick one of your words, courage. we are both very taken with human courage. our heroes have been people who had the guts to stick up for what they

captioning provided by the first amendment center, funded by the freedom forum. welcome to a special edition of speaking freely. i'm ken paulson, executive director of the first amendment center, and we're pleased to inaugurate a new series called whitney dialogues at the first amendment center. the cohost for this series is the director of the whitney museum of american art, max anderson. we're delighted to be working with the first amendment center on an exciting and important series of conversations with american artists. with this series, we'll have an opportunity to talk with the people who push the boundaries that society often sets for itself in the arts. our special guest today is an artist who came to prominence in the late 1980s with "fluid abstractions," a series of works that lit a bonfire in the u.s. congress and subsequently was decried and defended worldwide, a man who has continued to explore topics that others may see as off limits, andres serrano. thank you. that had to be a difficult period for you, a piece of art you created that involved a cr

captioning provided by the first amendment center, funded by the freedom forum. welcome to speaking freely, a weekly conversation about free expression, the arts, and america. i'm ken paulson. since the founding of jefferson airplane in 1965, our guest has produced an extraordinary body of music, sometimes popular, sometimes provocative, sometimes both. we're delighted to welcome rock and roll hall of fame member paul kantner. [applause] not long ago, paul, the washington post called you "the political conscience and space cadet of the jefferson airplane." do you plead guilty as charged? oh, and more. were you really the political force behind a very political band? no, no, we're a very apolitical band, if you really analyze it. and--we have the luxury of coming from san francisco, which is very nutritious for off-the-beam, off-the-normal-beam kind of people and nurtures them, really, in its own way. and we, in contrast to, say, berkeley, for example, in the '60s or the s.d.s. or the weathermen, chose and got away with creating our own alternate quantum, if you w

captioning provided by the first amendment center, funded by the freedom forum. welcome to speaking freely. i'm ken paulson. our guest today has been both a pioneer and a driving force behind hip-hop. he's the founder of def jam records, chairman of rush communications. he's russell simmons. thanks for joining us here today. thank you for having me. i read very recently-- i think it was salon that described you as "not the inventor of rap but the man most responsible for its success." guilty as charged? well, i would say that i have been part of a process, that i don't--i don't believe it would have been a problem for it to spread without my input, but i was a part of the process, and it was--it's been an amazing ride over the last 20-some-odd years, and i've watched it evolve. you've got a fascinating new book called life and death: sex, drugs, money, and god, which covers pretty much everything there, and it tells the story-- not necessarily in that order. well, it tells the story of your career, including the first moment you heard hip-hop and your reaction to

forum. we are thinking about how we wanted this case to come out. we wanted a narrow decision that would not harm regardless -- harm religious freedom regardless of which side. i would say to a large extent we got that. the majority opinion is not without problems. there is some language there that is quite unseemly. there is some language that i think it's problematic. we will not really know until both sides continue to push the boundaries exactly what that means. but i think this case focused on up in membership or all comers. hastings said this is the kind of group we have, we have one or everybody can come in or out. i think the case was really decided based on that. and they decided that was a policy and stipulation in play that led to the outcome. i will say that while there is no real establishment clause issue litigated, i cannot help but think that that is sorted in the background. there is something different about a lot of entanglement involvement with the student groups that make it feel differently. i would not ever justify the kind of things that justice stevens said, and it is noteworthy that he was alone in that opinion, but i think th