. >> friedeman at the university of pennsylvania. joan williams is professor at the university of california hastings college of law. thank you for being here. you think this is the start of a major benefits, do you think it's to compete for the top talent? >> i think it's something technology companies need to do. what's spectacular, we have a tight labor market for talent in the bay area. one of the ways they're competing with better leave and more family benefits. that's a real change. that's striking. >> it's a real change. definitely grabbing national headlines. when you try to break it down, how do you get the cost and measure against the benefit they should be getting? >> well, the long-term benefit in terms of attraction of retention, which is the adobe person was speaking about is enormous. there's research that shows investments in 16 weeks of paid leave for businesses worldwide would save over the long haul $16 billion overall. so the short-term cost is how you flex to make it work when people leave, of course, also offers