[laughter] and i think of him as frodo. >> yeah. >> in a frodo-like way. he's got that situation. find his bravery, like frodo's -- >> what does it say about the difference between you and me that i'm drawn to the most dramatic story in the new testament, and you think of "lord of the rings,"? [laughter] >> you were raised with religion. >> no, i have much grander aspirations for your imagination than you do. right? [laughter] >> i think the lord of the rings is pretty terrific. actually doesn't reread very well. but i read it the first time, i thought it was pretty terrific. so i think -- anyway, so what do all these people have this common? they're troublemakers this their environment, they're disruptive in some way or another, they have problems with their environment all of which is very useful this describing the environment. they're all characters this situations. in situations. beyond that -- >> what is it about you that is drawn to that specific profile? >> you know, it's funny, malcolm and i have done this once before a long time ago. you won't remember because there were