the fulton county court has just released sections of the special grand jury's final report, and this is of course, a long examination examining the efforts of donald trump and the allies to overturn the election results in georgia the 2020 presidential election in 2020, and so we have a team poring over this report as we get them, we will bring them to you, and now, patricia murray is a reporter for the "u.s. constitutional atlantic" and also we have michael murphy who is a former attorney, and so now, coming in we will have a beginning and middle and conclusion, and part of it will remain sealed and what are some of the reasons to keep part of the report secret and why do part of it or none of it? >> well, i am glad to be with both of you, and i think that the judge mcburney was trying to be solemnic and split the baby in half and trying to make decisions on the prosecutor and who and what she is trying to charge, and also, the due process, and so the defendants in the case, and he is allowing both ends to be served there. i don't know how much we will see, and i mean, i understand

if the fulton county d.a.nts down that road, does that tell us something about how the special counsel might be viewing the fake elector plots in other states. there's a lot of moving pieces here that could be addressed, even obliquely by this report. any of it might prompt a response either from donald trump's lawyers or from the man himself at mar-a-lago behind me. >> yeah, and we're going to be watching as soon as this thing drops, for now, garrett haake, blayne alexander. >>> we're following news out of michigan, we want to go straight to the press conference there giving us an update on the shooting. >> the second building, the union is still being evaluated for decisions to be reported later. fbi special agent in charge of michigan, jim turaska will report in just a moment on access to those buildings for students, faculty, and staff who still have materials that are present in those spaces. leaders across campus have been meeting with a variety of the groups that have been impacted from our families of

all of them appeared before the special grand jury in fulton county. at the same time, those subpoenas went out, the fulton county da also subpoenaed senator lindsey graham. again, related to his involvement in that scheme. for context, ten days after the 2020 election senator graham placed a phone call to georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. the georgia secretary of state told the washington post at the time, he was stunned by graham 's request to toss out huge swath of legally cast ballots. but a few days later, senator graham denied he'd ever said such a thing, instead he said that he wanted to talk about the process for future elections. >> did you or did you not ask him to throw out votes? >> no, that's ridiculous. i talked to him how -- i suggested if you go forward, can you change to make sure that bipartisan teams verifies signatures. >> that postelection phone call quickly became a focus of the district attorney's criminal investigation. senator graham fought his subsequent subpoena to common testify but the fighting did not work an

that, merrick garland, the fulton county da, they've got a really tough decision.e not just run-of-the-mill cases that you just look at the straight facts and decide well can i prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. you've got a former president, and it would be a first. it is a very significant decision. and it is going to up and. donald trump still has incredible amount of followers who do not believe he committed a crime, who are convinced that the election was stolen, and they're going to be upset if he gets charged, and much less convicted to be getting a jury no matter where this is. so, i do think that the times article really sets out that really difficult decisions that are facing the department of justice, and the fulton county da, despite what people think is overwhelming amount of evidence. >> doug, donald trump, because he is running for president again, he announced actually fairly early in the hopes of scaring off any either, legal pursuits lie could appear biased, or challengers. well, he's already got challengers, he has won challenger a

at the same time those subpoenas went out, the fulton county d.a. also subpoenaed senator lindsey graham, again, related to his involvement in that scheme. for context ten days after the 2020 election, senator graham placed a phone call to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. the georgia secretary of state told "the washington post" at the time he was stunned by graham's request to toss out huge swaths of legally cast ballots, and a few days later senator graham denied he'd ever said such thing. instead he said he wanted to talk about the process for future elections. >> did you or did you not ask him to throw out votes? >> no. i talked to him about how you verify signatures. i suggested he go forward and change the nature that a bipartisan team verifies signatures. >> that post-election phone call quickly became a focus of the district attorney's criminal investigation. senator graham fought his subsequent subpoena to come and testify, but the fighting didn't work. and so senator graham also wound up in the hot seat before that fulton cou

my question is, i predict the fulton county da, fani willis, in thanks donald trump.nd up getting a conviction, that's left to be seen,? right is there an issue vis-À-vis jurisdiction? if you get an indictment by donald trump by fulton county da, and then, jack smith tees up an indictment, which is first, and hugo, mar-a-lago. we think mar-a-lago doc's case is going to be the one that is going to be the first up by jack smith. it's the real concern that they can't coexist? these two commitments can't travel at the same time, in any way? >> there is no concern they can't coexist at the same time. there are cases where you see defendants indicted by multiple jurisdictions. there's some procedural issues, where judges have to consult with each other on the timing, there are questions about when a defendant goes into custody pretrial, which jurisdiction will take that defended it's a trial, but those are situations that the legal system is well accustomed to dealing with. i don't see that as a problem. there's an interesting twist though, katie, there's a little known sta

at the end of the day, they have to put on a case, and the fulton county grand jury in the fulton county da's office has to put on the case. and if there are other tapes, that's a nice little -- >> yes -- -- >> if there are these other tapes, we know there this whole fake electors -- scheme there is a multifaceted conspiracy here just as the january six committee pointed out. it was just a multi faceted effort to overturn the election. and some of those facets manifested themselves in georgia. and at the end of the, day of that evidence that goes into the -- jury, not the grand jury, is going to decide this case. >> michael, when we talked about what sort of bore fruit in this empaneled grand jury, the fact that george mentions there were tapes that we don't know about, and many of them, apparently -- >> tell us more -- >> tell us more, forewoman kohrs. that was really interesting. mark meadows -- we did not know that he had testified before this grand jury. we did not know that many people, at least, i think, i dozen, were given immunity to testify and were more forthcoming in that test

he says should be focusing on crime there in fulton county. we could learn whether that theory of the case has any merit from the sections of this report. but, jose, we're all just anxiously awaiting what we do get from the fulton county d.a.'s office, which could drop at any moment. >> chuck, what are you looking for from these sections of the report? >> well, i think garrett laid it out perfectly. i think the real interesting stuff won't be in what's being released today. we're going to get some direction. we may understand what it was that the special grand jury examined. but properly, jose, we don't get the details and we don't get the names. why is it improper to release that sort of information now? because final prosecutive decisions haven't been made. when they are made, they'll be made public and contained in an indictment. the prosecutors will speak in court. then people who are charged will have the opportunity to defend themselves. you don't want to spill into the public domain now at this point simply the allegations of the specia

apparently, fulton county district attorney fani willis did as well. office just one day after that call became public, and she has had a lot on her plate since then, including a criminal case involving rap artist young thug, and of course her months long investigation into donald trump. specifically whether trump or his allies broke the law when they attempted to interfere in the 2020 election in georgia. and just today, we learned that we will finally get a peek into the inner workings of that investigation. when parts of the special grand jury report into those allegations are made public this thursday. now, there are so many investigations into donald trump. it can be hard to keep track. in addition to fulton county, as that ongoing investigation, the manhattan district attorney's office, one former top new york prosecutor who was part of it is out with a new book this month, where he compared the disgraced ex president to a mob boss, and accuse him of building his profile, quote, through a pattern of criminal activity. meanwhile, special counsel j

and of, course everything we saw in fulton on january six occurred.ienced anything like that again. we have no assurance that we want unless there's real consequences that we have yet to see. i'm grateful that our attorney general in michigan has said,, look at the federal government has plans to do. on this court today -- but we in michigan will seek justice against those the try to affront our voters and take away our voters voices. and i'm really proud that she continues to lead and work with all of us to seek justice. more the aunt -- we saw michigan. >> are you heartened by the fact that the doj has requested documents from michigan officials, the special counsel seems to be looking at your state now, tell me how that ranks in terms of, full stop, your heart and. tell me about the efforts that you're engaged in to make sure that this does not happen again, could you outline some of them and how they might work? because election misinformation, and election fraud feels like it's -- groundwater. how do you combat it from -- ? >> well, one, again le

we are awaiting what the fulton county district attorney fani willis has called imminent decisions on indictments in that case. today her office released a heavily redacted preview of the special grand jury's final report, and while it offers little in terms of specifics, the preview does note this, quote, a majority of the grand jury believes that perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses testifying before it. the grand jury recommends that the district tierney seek appropriate indictments for such crimes where the evidence is compelling. now we don't know which witness or witnesses to special grand jury things lied under oath in that testimony, but wide-ranging inquiries spoke to dozens of folks with knowledge of the case, including a number of key trump allies, like this former national security adviser, mike plan. two of his lawyers, john eastman, and rudy giuliani. and one of his top advocates in the u.s. senate, none other than lindsey graham, who, like trump, called georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger about altering the results of the election. for hi

in addition to the fulton county investigation, today brought more word that justice special counsel jack smith has been very, very busy in his sprawling, criminal inquiry to the events surrounding january six. first, members of the special counsel team are in court today, arguing for access to pennsylvania republican congressman scott perry's phone records. this comes after investigators seized at the congressman cell phone over the summer. remember, it was scott perry who tried to get the trump administration to install election denier jeffrey clark as acting attorney general in the final weeks of the trump administration. he also pushed the trump administration to investigate the truly wild election fraud conspiracy theory, which involved italian defense contractor using military satellites to somehow flip votes from trump to biden. so that is the man who self funded justice department wants access to. that is why they were in federal court today. that is not all that the justice department has been up to in its massive january six probe. it has been exactly two weeks since we've

another headline this morning, portions of the fulton county grand jury report that investigated then president trump, how he infeared with the 2020 election were made public today. only the introduction, conclusion, and a section where jurors said they'll worry that? witnesses lied under oath will be released. a majority of the report will remain private until the fulton county district attorney concludes her probe. trump and his associates are being investigated for their actions. there were several attempts to recapture the swing state including, of course, the infamous phone call between trump and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and where trump, quote, asked him to find the necessary votes to win. elsewhere new numbers show the united states is on track to add $19 trillion to its national debt in the next decade. that's 3 trillion more than previously expected. "the new york times" reports the new forecast by the congressional budget office project a $1.4 trillion gap this year between what the government spends and what it takes from tax revenues. in the following t

the fulton county d.a.'s office has to put on a case, and if there are these other tapes, yes, if there are these other tapes and we know there's this whole fake elector scheme, there is a multifaceted conspiracy here. and just asti the january 6th committee pointed out, there was just a multifaceted effort to overturn the election and some of those facets manifested themselves in georgia. and at the end of the day that evidence that goes in is going to decide this case. >> michael, when we talk about what sort of bore fruit in this impanelled grand jury the fact george mentions there were tapes we don't know about, many of them apparently -- tell us more forewoman, khors. that was really interesting. mark meadow, the fact he had testified before this grand jury. we did not fte know many people least k a dozen were given immunitywe to testify and were more forthcoming in that or testimony. what stood out to you as most interesting in the bread crumbs that were dropped? >> well, i wasn't surprised at all to h

in fulton county, there should be and there is intense focus on what comes next.amiche: in some ways, what comes next, we think about the primaries, you made a smart point to our producers that this isn't normal times. inking about nikki haley but also there are people still protesting nightly in support of the january 6 the fenton's. you have the georgia grand jury looking at efforts to overturn the 2020 election and then you have a republican base still leaning into those same lies. scott: there is vitriolic election to nihilism through america. we see it manifesting in washington, d.c. about a mile from the capital where there are number of january 6 defendants held awaiting trial. our rallies there every night, there are supporters, and some fenton's speaking with members of congress trying to get hearings and investigations to hear what they characterize is department of justice overreach or mistreatment of the defendants in jail, but they now have her platform, i'm at -- a republican majority with members who want to have hearings. you have a candidate in th

on tuesday, the 4% of the fulton county special jury investigating donald trump and his efforts to subvert the 2020 election, she came forward with a bunch of unusual and unconventional comments that have been tricky bits of information. like the fact that the special grand jury empaneled by the fulton county da, fani willis, the recommended over a dozen indictments. the person named emily corps made a splash, and she sparked a debate within the legal community about her potential impropriety. but today, we heard from the georgia judge who oversaw that special grand jury, judge robert bernie. here's what he had to say on the. matter those grand jurors, including the fort woman, can share some details about their experience. and interview today with the atlanta constitution, judge mike bernie says they cannot discuss their deliberations, but if then assistant da or witness in the grand jury room, they can talk about what happened. that's not deliberations, that's presentation, and they're not prohibited from talking about that nor are they prohibited from talking about the fruit their delib

let's start in fulton county. i guess i don't have my arms around what genre we are talking about here. what is this document? >> you have to start with, this is extremely unusual. most grand jury is the thing the issue is an indictment. >> right. they're not like me. all i got his words. >> exactly. this is an unusual grand jury. they get to write a report. i think we'll get clues but not a lot of information tomorrow because if you remember what the judge was concerned about was naming people in terms of wrongdoing without them being charged. >> correct. >> it's the anti-jim coney. >> that's right. >> so we're gonna hear about the grand jury giving concern about people that lied. i had the same reaction. public corruption cases it happens all the time. jack smith part that's exactly what he's looking at. if lying. we'll get some inclination that the grand jury is very concerned by that but we're not gonna get names. >> so then what are we going to get? what is this thing going to say? we looked into it and we th

naturally fulton county d.a. faunae willis is best known for this investigation. in the state of georgia she's made a name for herself prosecuting gangs. she's brought three rico cases against three area gangs. racketeer and corruption charges are notoriously difficult to bring. you have to prove that a group of people were involved in a pattern of multiple crimes and that those crimes were all related to one another. but rico cases aren't all gangs and mafia numbers. the first case of faunae willis' was a case she brought against a group of public schools and teachers that they were working together to cheat state standardized tests. literally faunae willis brought rico charges against teachers and won convictions. so one of the big questions in former president trump's case is will faunae willis use particular skills she has in bringing rico cases against specific defendants. tomorrow we get a sneak peek that might help answer that question, emphasis on the word might. from may to december of last year willis' office had been using a special grand jury in fulton

trump then went on to say this >> then the other thing they said the in fulton county and other areas may or may not even be true this just came up this morning that they are burning their ballots. and that's just came to us as a report today and uh -- you know, it's -- it's a very sad situation >> seth: anytime you say the words "this may or may not be true," and those words are immediately followed by, "they're burning ballots," it's definitely not true. [ laughter ] i mean most of trump's conspiracy theories i can at least trace back to some tiny kernel of truth that his diseased mind then twists into some elaborate fantasy but this one i honestly have no [ bleep ] clue where he got it from and interestingly we never heard about it again i mean, burning ballots? did he go to a magic show and think it was a polling place "you know, they're burning the ballots and then the ballots disappear. they go poof, gone or so it seems, but then they pull the ballot out of the hat, and you think 'it can't be the same ballot. but then they say, 'is this your ballot?' and sure enough it is, it is

let's start in fulton county. i guess i don't have my arms around what genre we are talking about here. what is this document? >> you have to start with, this is extremely unusual. most grand jury is the thing the issue is an indictment. lead prosecutor on robert mueller's special counsel team and who has been following all of this in a granular fashion. let's start from what i ended on and work our way back. let's start in fulton county. i guess i don't have my arms around what genre we are talking about here. what is this document? >> you have to start with, this is extremely unusual. most grand jury is the thing the issue is an indictment. >> right. they're not like me. all i got his words. >> exactly. this is an unusual grand jury. they get to write a report. i think we'll get clues but not a lot of information tomorrow because if you remember what the judge was concerned about was naming people in terms of wrongdoing without them being charged. >> correct. >> it's the anti-jim coney. >> that's right. >> so we

again, fulton county is a major courthouse, major entity.ight be the least of their worries. i think what faunae willis is worried about at this point is building the case so that on the day she's ready to go before the world and quite frankly we know the eyes on the world will be on her that day when she goes before the cameras and makes her announcement that she can stand behind it and is willing to withstand the questions in the trials to come. >> tia mitchell, andrew wiseman, thank you so much for starting us off on this story. much more ahead on this front. rick sticks around. >>> when we come back the disaster in ohio is spreading today. there's a toxic plume of hazardous chemicals released after a train went off the tracks is now moving further downstream. there are growing fears among frightened residents who say they do not feel safe and a lengthy cleanup has just begun. an environmental activist on where east palestine goes from here after a quick break. we're so excited about that. >>> plus a major protest at the florida statehous

any time we talk about the possibility of an indictment here out of the georgia fulton county d.a. of donald trump i think we have to note that it is a big difference between indictment and conviction and if we do see an indictment i think there will be serious legal and practical obstacle. >> tom, we're told that the fultden county district attorney is still can are charging donald trump. do you think trump has a constitutional basis to challenge an indictment if he faces one? some legal experts have argued an elected local prosecutor simply cannot bring charges against a former president of the united states. >> yeah, jake, i'm not sure i see that line of defense. i can certainly see other lines of defense that the former president could deploy here, look, one thing to keep in mind, if and when the d.a. actually brings indictments and she said that these indictments are imminent and i am convinced there will be indictments either for perjury, for other crimes, they don't all have to come at once. in other words, i could see a scenario in which she indicts a number of officials, m

. >>> breaking news, the judge in fulton county, georgia, releasing three sections of that special grand jury report. joining me throughout the hour, peter alexander in washington. peter, you're following the big news from georgia. take it away. >> that is right, no bells chiming here so we'll try to get through this hour a little more silently if possible. there are three portions over nine pages in total that we are learning new details now, including this special grand jury receiving testimony from a total of 75 witnesses. they also received information through investigator testimony and various forms of digital and physical media, according to this new report we have received. that information coming throughout the year that they were impanelled. andrea will stay with us. joining us is blayne alexander in atlanta, garrett haake who is near former president trump's mar-a-lago estate in west palm beach, and former u.s. attorney joyce vance. blayne, i want to get to you right away. you have those excerpts from that report. it's limited, but there are two significant takeaways. >> report

it's up to the fulton county da to make that final termination. where they will land. >> you make the, 0.75 witnesses testified before the grand jury. that includes several key trump allies who were subpoenaed. senator lindsey graham, for, one this week stood by his testimony. take a listen. >> yes, i'm very confident. i have no idea what they are going to do. i will leave that to you. >> you're confident you or not -- >> i went in, honest testimony, that's the bright. i don't know what they're gonna do. >> do you see this as a closed chapter from your end? >> i hope so. let's put it this way. i did what i was asked to do, i asked what i was asked, i -- they were very perpetual. >> i'm curious, greg. is it possible that individuals who could be indicted have not appeared before the grand jury yet? i mean, can we rule out witnesses not been indicted, except possibly for perjury, since witnesses aren't the target of a criminal investigation? >> that's a really good point. you know, could it be looking at cross referencing testimony from the january

portions of the grand jury report will soon become public as the fulton county d.a. considers criminal charges. >>> plus, why officials in mississippi approve a bill to set up a separate white appointed court system for the people of jackson, which just happens to be 80% black. it's tonight's dispatch from our state of disunion. >>> but we begin tonight on this 13th day of black history month with a legend of john henry. some of you may know him more as a folk hero, a legend you can find in everything from cartoons to ballads, plays, and children's books. an incredible story of man versus machine. according to legend, he was enormous, this strapping railroad worker who raced a steam powered drill to build a railroad tunnel through a mountain. he beat the machine, and then he died notably of exhaustion. that's how i learned it in school. the heroic black man swinging his hammer on the railroad line, but he was actually a real person. that's the conclusion of historian scott reynolds nelson who wrote a book about him. during the late 19th century, henry did do dangerou

the fulton county district attorney herself had said in recent weeks charging decisions are imminent which means trump and his lawyers can protest all they want but does not mean trump's legal troubles are going away. today brought more word justice department special counsel jack smith, first members of the special counsel team were ipcourt today arguing for access to pennsylvania republican congressman scott perry emphasis phone records. this comes after investigators seized the congressman's cellphone over the summer. remember it was scott perry who tried to get the trump administration to install election denier jeffrey clark as acting attorney general in the final weeks of the trump administration and tried to get the trump administration to investigate the truly wild. so that is the man whose cellphone the justice department wants access to. the. that is why they were in federal court today, but that's not all the justice department had been up to in its massive january 6th probe. it's been exactly two weeks since we learned the doj subpoenaed vice president mike pence for his

this comes as the fulton county georgia district attorney considers whether to seek indictments against donald trump or his allies for tampering with georgia's 2020 election results. and now in the georgia case, something highly unusual has happened. the forewoman of the 23-person special grand jury that investigated the case is talking publicly about the grand jury's work, revealing they recommended multiple indictments. >> it's not a short list. >> not a short list. >> reporter: she says she decided to speak because serving on a grand jury was, quote, a really cool experience. but she's giving her opinion of the case even though most of the grand jury's work remains under seal. >> i will be sad if nothing happens. like, that's about my only request there is for something to happen. i don't necessarily know what it is. i'm not the legal expert. i'm not the judge. i'm not the lawyers. >> reporter: the case centers on trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia, including his infamous call asking the state's republican secretary of state to, quote, find exactly the numb

i want to turn back to fulton county.tion to the fulton county grand jury's report again? we have only seen a portion of it release but what stands out to you from these sections released today? >> to newsworthy items. one is that 23 jurors got together and unanimously decided that there was no fraud. so for me to get 23 people to agree on something you couldn't get them to agree on what color the sky is. the second is perjury. it really feels like a step one in this process. you had 75 individuals that were interviewed. i was one of them and it is a very intimidating scene. you have 23 jurors and a few district attorney officials and you just go at it until they are done asking questions. i can only imagine if one person said something that wasn't true and to watch it then be turned around a couple different ways throughout a nine-month trial. there was certainly going to be some folks sweating after getting that news about the perjury. >> and yet a trump spokesperson reacted essentially gloating that the experts -- exce

county district attorney, the fulton county district attorney has said the decisions on charges arehis grand jury material potentially impact the timetable for charges? >> yeah, well, i think it increases the pressure on the d.a., when she said imminent, that's not a legal term of art. it means whatever the d.a. thinks imminent should mean. but i would never say that to a judge unless i was talking weeks. >> we know trump's legal team turned over more documents, and some of them had been scanned to a thumb drive and to a laptop. how does that impact the potential criminal charges or the actual criminal investigation into all this? >> that is a vital new detail, in my view, as a former prosecutor, because now i know that those documents were not just stuffed in boxes or sort of laying around mar-a-lago. now i know that something was done with those documents. and i would want to dig in and say, who gave this instruction? why were they scanned? and what was done with them? because we're going from a world where the documents are contained on paper, to where they've been digitized. and

well indeed, the russian president vladimir fulton, has visited the southern, the city of vulgar grad, which just for one day has been given its previous name of stalingrad. basically, the whole city around me is celebrating the 80th birthday. the 80th anniversary i should say, over the battle that basically shaped the entire world war to one of the most decisive clashes between the soviet army and nazi germany. behind me is a show that the city has prepared for, well, what looks like hundreds of people who are well gathering all around me. but of course, the, the speech of the russian president vladimir putin. it could not admit the current conflicts that russia is engulfed in. now, of course, i'm talking about the conflict in ukraine. moscow largely sees this as the new as the 21st century battle of knox is em. and the, well, basically the bits that you just heard of latimer prudent saying that, well, german tanks are once again fighting russian tanks and german tanks are marked with crosses and that they are well operated by a cruise that are following in the footsteps over hitler.

the district attorney in fulton county, georgia, is considering who actually they will charge.port of that special grand jury that she was speaking about today other than the fact that they are recommending some indictments at very least, perjury, possible perjury charges of people that testified that they believe may not have been truthful. so we're in a waiting game to see what the district attorney does there and who will be charged and whether or not that will include donald trump himself. wolf? >> interesting. thank you very much. let's get to more on all of this. maggie and our legal analyst, elliott williams. elliott, when asked whether the jurors recommended indicting donald trump, the forewoman told the "new york times," it's not rocket science. does it sound to you like trump should be preparing to be indicted? >> perhaps, wolf. but big picture, there interview is precisely why prosecutors, judges, to some extent defense attorneys hate when jurors or grand jurors speak to the media in advance of major decisions. it's not reality television where you're trying to whip

the rest of the report is strictly for fulton county district attorney it's only.hether to pursue indictments. but now the jury is foreperson, emily corps, has embarked on a very polarizing media tour. here is what she had to say to nbc news is plain alexander in the first television interview about the jury's indictment recommendations. >> there definitely are names that you would expect. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i am not going to speak on exact indictments. i would not expect you to be too shocked, no. >> that includes of the former president, potentially? >> potentially, it might. >> here to discuss is former assistant watergate special prosecutor, jill wine-banks. i am so happy you are here. i did mention some legal experts worry about the interview, but you are not part of some, why? >> i am not. i admit that there is an argument about what lying she may or may not have crossed. let's put it in context, this is a special process granary, it is not a regular grand jury. as you pointed out, simone, they do not i

. >> there is one name really standing out lately, when it comes to the fulton county, georgia specialat recommended indictments in its investigation into attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. well, two names if you count former president, donald trump. the other is this woman, emily corps. the 4% of that special grand jury. she sat down with my colleague, blayne alexander, earlier this week and had some very interesting things to say, including that the list of recommended indictments is, quote, not a short list. and that it might include donald trump. take a listen. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i'm not going to speak on exact indictments. >> what would be surprised, are there bombshells? -- >> i don't think that there are any giant plot twists coming. i don't think that there are any, like, giant, that's not the way i expected to go at all. i don't think that's in store for anyone. >> so, nothing that would surprise people who have been following this? >> probably not. i wouldn't want to characterize anyone

there are 18 targets of the fulton county, georgia, investigation.r part to make sure donald trump served another four years. ultimately who got in the way? it's mike pence. that is unforgivable for so many republican voters. >> my god. >> as jonathan just said, those trump supporters are never going to support mike pence. if you're trying to have it both ways, you're going to lose. there's a large chunk of the electorate, maybe 45-50% of the electorate that don't want donald trump to be their nominee. that's what mike pence and others should go after. vaughn just talked about georgia. i can't think of a better example of brad raffensperger and the governor down there, brian kemp, both of them crossed donald trump in a hard, tough way, both of them did. we heard reports they were done. brad raffensperger is never going to win. the trumpers are going to overwhelm him. they crushed donald trump. they crushed donald trump in the deep south in a really conservative state for republicans. that's the pathway forward. you do it the way brian kemp did it, th

to the success of saw the trips we heard from a world war 2 that when he shared his account and to fulton, good jen again. you don't you read but actually claim rather when the germans were approaching stalingrad and we were sent out to meet them the 1st time we fought them on the river bushes. we did not have enough manpower, but we fought back the enemy, preston, and we were treated to vulgar itself. it was very sad that we retreated, that ish, but we did not have the strength. we had to retreat better as we had a system when using the cannon. ain people 6 engaging and firing us to bringing the shelves. corporal also the shells weighed, has 60 kilograms each enough. when i 1st arrived at the unit, i could only just managed to lift it while i did not have the necessary skills and strength, the germans pressed us back to the vulgar will. our army entrenched itself on the banks of the vulgar. we resisted as best as we could. blur army was already receiving help from the opposite bank of the volga. it was very hard. she. there were not enough shells. well that surely. so were there 0 letter

reporter: the decision on whether or not to seek any indictments is entirely in the hands of the fulton county district attorney. some legal experts caution that the jurors' comments could complicate things when the judge in this case disbanded the special grand jury last month, he did not speak them from speaking publicly, but under georgia law, david, they are not permitted to speak about their deliberations. >> jon karl with us again on this story tonight. jon, thank you. >>> when we come back, the major headline in the alex murdaugh murder trial late today involving alex murdaugh himself, charged with murdering his wife and son. >>> and we'll show you the new image tonight from the pentagon of china's spy balloon taken by anot plane well above the u.s. age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss and if you're taking a multi-vitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece... preservision. preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progres

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will break down the findings on the georgia grant special jury report and what happens next in the fulton county da probe. i am ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. tonight, we begin with some major breaking news, former president jimmy carter has decided to receive hospice care after several short hospital stays. this according to a new statement from the carter center. quote, after a series of short hospital stays, former u.s. president jimmy carter today decided to spend his remaining time at home with his family and respective hospice care instead of additional medical intervention. he has the full support of his family and his medical team. the carter family asked for thoughts during this time and is grateful for the concern by his many admirers. carter, the 39th president, turned 98 in october. nbc news has learned that president joe biden is aware of former president joe carter's decision and the white house is in touch with the carter family and close advisers. joining me now is peter baker, chief what correspondent for the new york times. he's also a msnbc political analysts. pete

to fulton county, georgia, specifically. movement this week in the investigation that is widely considered to be the most illegally perilous to donald trump. special grand jury was convened to investigate efforts by donald trump and his allies to overturn his 2020 election loss in georgia. and this week, a judge ordered the release of part of that special grand jury's report. according to the report, the grand jury found evidence of possible perjury or, by at least one witness. but no evidence supporting donald trump's claims of widespread voter flocked. the report indicated that date grandeur egypt make recommendations about indictment, but no identifying information was released publicly. so we don't know who they thought may have lied to the grand jury, and who they think might be indicted. still, there was a new york times op-ed, written by three experts on the fulton county investigation, on the january six committee's investigation, and georgia state law, who see real danger for donald trump, and the country. they wrot

the entire fulton county georgia could potentially be -- anybody in fulton county who's sort of over age of 18 can be a potential juror in this trial. they're hearing now evidence that's going to be presented before them at trial. and developing opinions about it, developing opinions about defendants. that, too, can taint the prosecution. if this individual who we're hearing from really wants these people charged with crimes so badly, she better shut her mouth about them, because ultimately, she could imperil their convictions, if they ever reached that point. and on appeal, after someone's been convicted, that's when attorneys can raise an argument like, hey, look, nothing was fair from the beginning here, on account of the fact that the jury pool was tainted by information that was presented to them, even before we got into court. it's just, again, nothing fatal has happened here right now. i don't want to sound too over the top, but the risks are so great to the process, which is why judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys are so risk averse at this stage. >> last one here. cnn

especially because we have not heard the decision from the fulton county da on that.read for you though some expectations that new york times put forward word about how possibly that da might go about this. saying it is time to prepare for a possible trump indictment. fani lewis, the fulton county da may present the case as a simple and streamlined one or in a more sweeping fashion, success is more likely assured in the simpler approach. but the fact that the redact data port has eight sections, suggest a broader approach is conceivable. what do you make of that. >> i have my own opinion. about whether it is smarter to bring a narrow focused tailored case, and easy charge for example, of soliciting election fraud in violation of georgia law. based on that corrupt phone call that we have all heard. or, a larger more comprehensive case, the more complex case, more difficult to prove perhaps. like a rico case. racketeer influence and corrupt organizations. i would urge the district attorney, who is very experienced and successful in bringing the larger rico cases, to bri

. >> well, i give a lot of credit to the fulton county d.a.i think she's been really courageous and has moved with swiftness to conduct this investigation. it begs the question why it has taken the justice department so long. it's unusual for a local county d.a. in the case of national and federal significant to be way out ahead of the justice department. but it will be fascinating when we get to see more of this report. i understand why it was redacted. the priority is to bring people to justice here, and i think the judge didn't want to disclose anything that might interfere with the investigation, telling, too, that as we found in our investigation in congress, where we had very serious concerns about perjury, that similarly the grand jury in fulton county has the same concerns, maybe over some of the same witnesses. we were particularly concerned with the fact that some of our witnesses shared common council, council that may be beholden to the former president, and in cases that council was essentially coaching the witness to say that the

. >>> another headline here, we now have the first look at the report the fulton county grand jury put together on potential interference in the 2020 election. three sections were unsealed yesterday -- the introduction, the conclusion and a section where a majority of the grand jury asserted one or more witnesses may have committed perjury. the identities of which witnesses the panels thought might have lied under oath, they were not revealed. but senator lindsey graham, one of several high profile figures to be questioned in the probe insists it wasn't him. >> yes, i'm very confident. i have no idea what they're going to do. >> so you're confident you're not one of those who perjured themselves? >> do you see this as a closed chapter from your end? >> i hope so. let's put it this way i did what i had to do. they were very professional. >> truthfully little new information was learned in these un-redacted pages, but we did pick up the jury unanimously concluded there was no fraud in the 2020 election. the panel also voted to release the entire report to the public, but the judge said t

fulton county da fani willis is a decision is a minute. but the 4% of the special grand jury seems to be doing some of the da's cards. speaking to five different media outlets, that includes msnbc news. georgia law does not allow members of the grand jury to discuss until deliberations. they are a lot to speak openly about other aspects of the case. she has hinted that accountability is inevitable. she revealed the names of witnesses who testified, claimed some witnesses were granted immunity. she also said jurors listened to the phone call between trump georgia secretary of state, you know, when trump asked him to find 11,578 votes. jurors also heard testimony from the fake electors scandal to return -- she even revealed the grand jury recommended indicting over a dozen people. when it comes to indictments, here's what she told nbc's grant alexander. >> there definitely are some names that you expect. >> did the grand jury recommend an indictment of former president trump? >> i am not going to speak an exact indictments. i would not expec

what is your sense of the timing of indictments for fulton county?mike, that's the million dollar question. i think that a lot of it's going to depend on who the nor targets? who is the target of the perjury investigation? we had some really high-profile names in terms of who was testifying in front of the granary. you are talking about rudy giuliani. you're talking about senator lindsey glam. the higher you go on that list, the more -- the da's massive as to deal with their ability to prosecute. for me, it's really going to depend on who the grand jury was talking about with respect to the perjury charges and potential perjury charges. that's going to dictate the timeline. i'm hoping that we learn a little bit more in the coming months. i would say, safely we would be looking at 30 to 90 days. >> so, with all the subpoenas flying around between the state and the feds, the former white house official has told the hill trump has confidence that he won't be charged from this mishandling of documents. the classified documents at mar-a-lago. what are the

and in the possession of the fulton county district attorney.sion on wlrnl to follow through with those recommendations. just in the last hour, our colleague, blayne alexander, spoke with kohrs. here she is discussing how many indictments they have recommended. >> it's not a short list. i mean, we saw 75 people, and there are six pages of the report, i think, if you look at the page numbers. so it's not -- >> we're talking about more than a dozen people? >> i would say that, yes. >> are these recognizable names? names that people would know? >> there are certainly names that you would recognize, yes. there are names also that you might not recognize. >> certainly names you'll recognize. much more of that coming up on "nightly news." joining us is joyce vance, will you professor at the university of alabama. also, former fbi assistant deputy director for counterintelligence, both msnbc contributors. welcome to both of you. joyce, let's start with you. first of all, what do you make of this? this is unusual, the foreperson of the grand jury saying

>>> and now that parts of the fulton grand jury report is out, will the d.a. bring charges against former president trump. we'll talk to a former georgia prosecutor about the decision the current one is facing. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. "chris jg reports" only on msnbc nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... try hypnosis... or, quit cold turkey. are you kidding me? instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big. so cozy. how many rooms are in there? should we go check it out? yeah. we get to stay here all weekend! when you stay at a vrbo... a man, his family, and his tractor, penny. >>> china's high altitude balloon. our military through the north american defense, norad, closely scrutinized our airspace, including enhancing our radar to pick up more slow-moving objects above our country and around the world. in doing so, they tracked three unidentified objects. one in alaska, canada and over lake huron in the midwest. they acted in accordance established parameters for deter