so i think this story has got further to run, not least because of the excellent scoop from gabriel pogrund morning. meeting gabriel programme this morning, who was voted journalist of the year in 2023. he told me that he's got a lot of track record with the fix and there's been the newspaper and where you used to work and you probably know gabriel has done a lot of investigating before, so i wonder if you can lift the lid because we know newscasters like it newscasters like it — when natalie elphicke defected in the marmalade dropping moment, do we think that's when gabriel polgrund picked up the phone to robert buckland after she defected? how do you think the anatomy of this scoop was revealed? well, gabriel did a lot of great investigative work a couple of years ago, actually, more than a couple of years ago, several years ago on charlie elphicke. and in fact, charlie elphicke unsuccessfully tried to sue the sunday times on the basis of some of gabriel's reporting. so i think one of the ways in which the labour party underestimated the potential political and journalistic fallout from t

gabriel pogrund is a journalist at the times and he wrote, that, natalie elphicke his words cruelly and—husband , ed charlie, offender ex—husband, ed charlie, gabriel pogrund then goes on to say, there are other things i cannot report. the number of rumours swirling westminster about the conduct of natalie elphicke and her husband, charlie elphicke, particularly with regards to sex crimes , is with regards to sex crimes, is fairly shocking. >> yes it is, but yesterday came to a big surprise to many people, when that happened, i remember the news breaking and i couldn't believe what was going on. but the thing the biggest question there. i can't believe that keir starmer accepted her into the party. i mean , she has into the party. i mean, she has no values at all with that are in line with the labour party, and she's not covered herself in glory at all, so another one that was stepping down, apparently. anyway, for the next term , where's she going to go term, where's she going to go from here? i also think she's done herself any favours. >> so what's the game plan, then? do you reckon