he defected, went to the us, and he was actually trained and sent back to fight gaddafi topple gaddafisort of military campaign from chad. now what is happening, this general is backed by egypt, by the united arab emirates, and russia. why? he managed to secure the eastern part of libya, which is the wealthy part. where the oil is. yes. and he managed to root out isis from that eastern part, and he controls about 80%, or 75% of libyan oil export, it is coming from that part. now, the west actually could not do anything, they broke it in libya and they cannot fix it. stop. one thing. no, one thing. because you have given us the anti—western analysis. i think it is time to look at russia. it really is time to look at russia, what russia has done in syria and is about to do in libya, you have to absolutely focus... wait till i mention russia. unbelievable. it is very interesting what russia is doing. ok, i'm explaining. the west went to russia, italy and britain. they say to russia, please save us. we have illegal immigration, there are 2000 kilometres of the seashore, libyan territories

what added to this was that the actions in libya just across the border, the destroyer of the gaddafir destroyer of the gaddafi regime again four years previously, had left the country in chaos. and islamic state took root there, there is evidence on the part of the museum attack that the people involved in that, three of them, they trained at least partly in libya. so the consequences of what happened in libya, though welcomed at the time at the end of the gaddafi regime, turned into something far more difficult and in fa ct something far more difficult and in fact now the country is still in great degree of security disarray. so then the lessons, not only for western democracies with tourists wanting to travel, but also some of those countries that wear and have been for long—time popular destinations for british tourists, what lessons do they need to learn? i think there is an overall lesson, we are now 15 years into a war on terror and we now are in this extraordinary position where the leading present britain is saying we have the highest threat level in a0 yea rs. have the highe

better off without gaddafi. the world is better off without saddam hussein. the libyans are better off? not yet. is iraq better off without saddam hussein? not yet. in terms of the other elements, these were indigenous forces. the united states did not overthrow yemen. they did not back the rebel movement. iran has, to some extent. president obama did in courage mubarak to step aside. demonstration was not something that was generated here from washington. we are having to react to those ukraine wast and not something that was cooked up in washington. host: i do want to ask, you resigned from the state department after criticizing the pentagon. how the pentagon was treating, then bradley manning. i want to get your thoughts on president obama's decision to pardon chelsea manning. >> i was surprised he did it. in the book, i thought that the army should offer chelsea manning parole at the first opportunity but i do think that while it was important for chelsea manning to serve a significant amount of time in prison, i do think that president obama showed the b

it lost billions of dollars in oil contracts in libya after gaddafi was ousted and killed.. now, you know, whether or not putin backing haftar is actually going to stem the flow of real question to me. isn't it actually going to undermine the stability of the country, the un peace process, and actually leave europe out in the cold, because putin doesn't care about the flow of refugees into europe and neither does trump. and neither does general haftar. general haftar has been against european and un attempts to kerb that migration. this is also where, i think, there isa this is also where, i think, there is a connection between trump and putin. and they both — they both seem putin. and they both — they both seem to admire so—called strong men, leaders, authoritarian, people who they view as being able to re—establish order in where they see as chaotic regions. however, you know, trump, he hasn't criticised russia for this. he may not have to. he may be able to — he may not even have to endorse what's happening. he could just turn a blind eye and allow it to happen. general

i've done lots of things that other people would never be able to do, i have spent time with colonel gaddafi myself as incredibly lucky. i appalling things. i regard myself as inc luck .y lucky. i thougm: e 27 7: many

gaddafi. host: this 24-hours news cycle, does it make it more difficult to give time to an investigation? someone else is going to publish it. david: it can because the competitive pressures are out there. sometimes you just have to go out and say, folks, we need to calm down and slow down and figure out what we have here. and i've been at work on one project for the past seven or eight months, it's a little hard to get away with that in this modern churn world and the churn sometimes slows down the ability to go spend the time on the kind of investigative things that bob and i and many other journalists like to go do. benjamin: you've got a culture of -- bob: you've got a culture of impatience and speed which drives the readers and the viewers and the expectation is trump has his press conference yesterday and i found myself going to "the new york times" or "the post" or other websites, well, what's the reaction? i want instant reaction. host: twitter is where you go. bob: i don't even know w

in 2003-2004, the gaddafi regime to give up its nuclear program and other weapons of mass destruction programs. stabilityood for the of the region. it is not directly connected, in my view, to all the reasons that ultimately led to civil war and the overthrow of gaddafi in 2011. you could be critical of what in 2011,d states did but i don't think that is the result of the good work done years earlier to convince gadhafi to give up nuclear and chemical weapons programming. host: let me ask you about north korea, two parts. what we saw was the half-brother of kim jong un used to kill him -- and what was used to, and airport and the testing going on. what is your biggest worry and concern? i think in the field i have worked in, the biggest concern in the united states is the capability of north korea to develop an intercontinental holistic meso with a nuclear warhead that could hit united states. host: are they close? guest: it is hard, even for the best intelligence experts, to know how close they are but it is undeniable they are progressing toward that, and the testing program for mis

i have done lots of things that other people won't be able to do, i met colonel gaddafi, and was lockedo had done the most appalling things. i regard myself as very lucky. i honestly thought, oh well, my luck has run out. but the listeners, many perhaps facing a similar situation, admired this brisk, factual, sometimes funny, sometimes moving, but above all frank account of facing the end and the impact it would have on his family. the people for whom my death will be most difficult without any question at all on my children and my loved ones. there was a look in their eyes which i will never forget. and what it is, you know what they mean to you, what you don't know is what you mean to them. steve hewlett, who often spoke to us here on the bbc news channel has died at the age of 58. we will look at the weather now. good evening. some saw sunshine today, others saw dark clouds and outbreaks of rain. it's a weather front here, with rain pushing across southern england as they go towards dawn. bringing in airfrom a reasonably warm direction so temperatures won't drop the huge amount durin

in 2003-2004, the gaddafi regime to give up its nuclear program and other weapons of mass destruction programs. stabilityood for the of the region. it is not directly connected, in my view, to all the reasons that ultimately led to civil war and the overthrow of gaddafi in 2011. you could be critical of what in 2011,d states did but i don't think that is the result of the good work done years earlier to convince gadhafi to give up nuclear and chemical weapons programming. host: let me ask you about north korea, two parts. what we saw was the half-brother of kim jong un used to kill him -- and what was used to, and airport and the testing going on. what is your biggest worry and concern? i think in the field i have worked in, the biggest concern in the united states is the capability of north korea to develop an intercontinental holistic meso with a nuclear warhead that could hit united states. host: are they close? guest: it is hard, even for the best intelligence experts, to know how close they are but it is undeniable they are progressing toward that, and the testing program for mis

they believe these weapons of mass destruction prevent kim jong-un from going the way of gaddafi or hassanieve that. >> one is they may flee norm north korea then you would have 20 to 25 people flooding into -- the other is they are devoted that they would fight back with everything they had. your thought. >> i have talk to a lot of north koreas about that. if they perceived to be attacked by united states they would rally behind the region. -- >> that's been my impression. the last time i was there, i tried to explain on saturday night, we americans are not trying train how to kill them, they believe they we were training like they are training against us. >> we were discussing this before the show, i think that if something happened internally and can the region collapsed from within you would have lots of people saying -- it's not a contradiction if we tried to take them out from the outside, they would rally around. that's why the threat of united states has been what's kept them together. >> you and i have had this discussion, i believe the region is fragile than they portray. >> he k

i don't mean to say this in a way that underplays the horrible devastation of muammar gaddafi or what would happen in that city, but there was no other reason to do this. we deposed a dictator and helped create an incredibly chaotic dynamic in the middle east. and we did so -- keep in mind, this is the presidential candidate who told charlie savage that, of course, a president obama would not seek to create war abroad without getting congressional approval. so much did he flout that imperative at the time, when congress came back to him after the more than 60 days, which is supposed to be the cut off, and said, hey, perot, we are supposed to vote on this one, -- , we are actually supposed to vote on this one, he said, it is not actually any kind of war, saying it is a kinetic military action, so a different category. this gets into a big disappointment about barack obama, not just to libertarians, but to a lot of people. -- oromise of obama-is an bama-ism, this was a constitutional law professor, he was going to roll back the aggrandizement of the executive branch of government. 2007,

helped over there throw gaddafi and when they helped the syrian refugees. >> however you thinkab proceded with this was not only incompetent but strategically incoherent. >> what follows is unclear how they will announce the next move. but donald trump will likely want neil gorsuch confirmed before the case could hear the case to avoid a possible 4-4 split. >> president trump reiterating on air force one in the past couple of hours we will see some sort of action very soon. sometime next week. he would not tip his hat yet as to which direction he is leaning or the attorneys or advising him to do. on capitol hill, back to you. alison: thank you very much. also today a group of children and teenagers all between the ages of 9 and 20 say the government is threatening their health by not addressing climate change so they add a new defendant to the lawsuit. president donald trump. the students want a court order now requ government to reduce carbon monoxide emissions that many signists link to global warming. still to come today -- his height gives him an advantage on the basketball court. but

i have done lots of things that other people won't be able to do, i met colonel gaddafi, and was lockedthought, oh well, my luck has run out. but the listeners, many perhaps facing a similar situation, admired this brisk, factual, sometimes funny, sometimes moving but above all frank account of facing the end and the impact it would have on his family. there was a look in the eyes of my children and loved ones which i will never forget. and what it is, you know what they mean to you, what you don't know is what you mean to them. steve hewlett, who has died at the age of 58. you are watching the bbc news at five. the us vice president, mike pence, has described america's commitment to the european union as steadfast and enduring but said nato members must act quickly to increase defence spending. his comments were made after his first official meeting with the president of the european council, donald tusk. meanwhile president trump is facing calls to further clarify his comments over the weekend, in which he appeared to suggest that there had been a terror attack in sweden. richard list