or gao. i worked in the private sector, senator, and i'm not questioning your point directly, but a lot of times banks won't disclose when their systems are broached because they don't want to shock stockholders or regulators or what have you. whereas, again, the irs is not in that position. there's no question that the irs in theory could implement changes in their processes that could make it more difficult for people to engage in unscrupulous behavior. but they are so malleable -- they being the bad guys, as i call them -- that it is very difficult for the irs to keep up with it. as senator mccaskill pointed out, it is partially a resource issue. as i pointed out before, the irs sometimes simply doesn'tut implement changes that we think would be simple. and i believe you were in theth room when i talked about if they shared more information withi other departments such as the education department as it dep relates to the american opportunities tax credit. this is a little factoid i wanted

the reports by the gao that really started with a pretty simple. [inaudible] offering 2010 by senator colborne in the. [inaudible] something we all hate to do but if were going to do it it's nice to get some measure of control and a pretty simple concept is asking the gao to issue reports and inspections on different programs as resulted in $75 billion of savings over seven years. this is pretty remarkable. based on the amount of budget authority that the gao has, $3.8 billion over that timeframe that a 20: one investment. >> put the microphone on for this. 112 to one. >> they have a good return to rate as well. i have unanimous consent that might written remarks, written statement were get written in the record. i want to start with a couple i prepared for the hearing. just to put things in context. we got a recent congressional budget office report on long-term then deficit. they always report these things as percentage of gdp and we go through a fair amount of effort to convert those dollars because that makes us meaningful. the last number of y

i have no problem with the gao hiring good people. if we have the money and the authority, we can bring them in. but i see other departments and agencies struggling with that process. opm is not providing enough leadership in this area. i think you should look for more leadership out of opm and the chief human capital officers council and put more pressure on them to be more aggressive and helpful. >> i know that you know this is a major focus of our subcommittee this year, and so i want to close by thanking you and all of you for your service, especially you and your team. gene, you guys, if only we had listened to you, i think we would be better at what we do. thank you so much for the great work that gao does and that you do personally. >> thank you. >> senator carper. >> thank you. i apologize for being in and out. we have a hearing in the public works committee that i serve on as well, so i've been trying to do justice to both groups. we're working on cloning here in the congress to be in two places at one time. we will wait to s

poster child with what gao has mentioned as issues. our second floor and third floor are not usable. we cannot get a parking lot outside. the elevator in the middle of the building does not work. this issue has been ongoing. it is not know. -- not new. it is my privilege and honor to serve in this capacity. thank you. senator peter's? dr. blanck, i owe you a special debt of gratitude, public service, but you are a former dean of public policy at the university of michigan. is one of the excellent jobs i've had in the past. peters: that is an excellent answer even though it wasn't a question. point well taken, senator. but i will tell you i have several on my staff including folks in the room today who appreciate your service at the university of michigan and the gerald ford school. o, i also want to add to my colleague's comments thank you for your work and putting together the report. the $75 million figure we have been given is assumed to grow as well, and it is thanks to the tireless work. i also wanted -- before i ask a couple of q

i have no problem with the gao hiring good people. if we have the money and the authority, we can bring them in. but i see other departments and agencies struggling with that process. opm is not providing enough leadership in this area. i think you should look for more leadership out of opm and the chief human capital officers council and put more pressure on them to be more aggressive and helpful. >> i know that you know this is a major focus of our subcommittee this year, and so i want to close by thanking you and all of you for your service, especially you and your team. gene, you guys, if only we had listened to you, i think we would be better at what we do. thank you so much for the great work that gao does and that you do personally. >> thank you. >> senator carper. >> thank you. i apologize for being in and out. we have a hearing in the public works committee that i serve on as well, so i've been trying to do justice to both groups. we're working on cloning here in the congress to be in two places at one time. we will wait to s

the gao, u.s.overnment has said that in 1970 about 26% of the workers were hispanic in may 1990 at it gone up over 45%. that's for the nation as a whole and its meat and poultry. not really broken down. when i looked outside states, alabama, arkansas, north carolina, georgia and mississippi, the states were interesting because more than half the poultry production and the nation is conducted there and also those first aid which gained interest increases in the hispanic population between 1990 and 2000. so i think is north carolina, for example, almost a 400% increase in the hispanic population in the state. that's relative obviously the absolute numbers start much lower. despite states are not traditional gateways for immigrants. normally the east and west coasts. these were near definitions for immigrant. and so the percentage in those states in a particular county with poultry plants put together the u.s. census data with u.s. economic census and you can see the rise in hispanic population in tho

because this will lead to the next question in which the gao was somewhat critical of the fda saying that it lacks measurable goals to assess its progress in advancing regulatory science and the science supporting its effort to assess the products it relates and it goes on further to say there are resources that have been given to the fda and that indeed they have not systematized to account for the spending. any thoughts on that? >> thank you for the question, senator. i'm familiar with the report. i reviewed it in the past and i think this is both the challenge and an opportunity trying to make sure that we not only have the best workforce possible in order to assure the fda gold standard, but that they have the best training and the best tools and are leaning forward and trying to adopt the best science used to govern the review process, and this is something when i was at the fda with dr. ameri mclellan that we tried to democratize an effort to improve the quality of the tools that they weren abling sponsors to use as part of the tools they use to judge drugs. that's part of what

the frustrating part for me was gao and ig made a number of recommendations over a year ago. the v.a. hadn't completed any album when they said they would. asked a question, are you going to complete those recommendations you say you agree with. it is frustrating to sit here and a committee and have someone a year ago tell us we agree with all that. i think we have new leadership. and one of the new problems was leadership again, they are time to get a permanent director. i think that line is heading in the right direction. drinking -- both ranking member walls and myself were encouraged by what we heard. >> thank you very much for being with us in newsmakers. >> thanks for having me on. commas witht the the v.a. secretary -- what is the biggest challenge he is facing? kellie: i think the community care combined with the accountability relations, this is something congress has been working with to make improvements on for a long time. they have not been able to make it to the president's desk. he wants to take up the helm of what bob mcdonald brought in. former ceo of procter

grounds, a choice that a gao report later called report later called unprecedented. unprecedented. dr. gottlieb, you defended the dr. gottlieb, you defended the administration's ideological administration's ideological position on behind the counter position on behind the counter options for plan "b" allowing options for plan "b" allowing picks to interfere directly with picks to interfere directly with women's access to health services they need. given the trump's administration clear willingness to skirt ethics rules and pressure federal employees to jam their policies through, not to mention their commitment undermining web's access to birth control and other health services, i find that aspect of your professional history especially troubling. and as i mentioned i'm concerned and as i mentioned i'm concerned about your financial about your financial entanglements especially given this administration's record on this iss entanglements especially given this administration's record on this issue from president trump on down. one example of my concerns is in 2012 you

we also asked and got the second installment of a gao study as to, again, that same population, thate demographic this kind of initiative and the georgetown study which i read the executive summary which i think is outstanding just providing the worth in changing communities, changing both parents and non- -- parents of non-asd children the attitudes, the behavioral change, the understanding. that will not only change every community, every household in america but it will also provide a climate where more effective legislation can go forward at the state and federal level. our next big challenge is the services bill. that is why we did the autism cares, we want to continue the good studies going on in nih and the prevalence and surveillance studies by cdc but also to figure out what do we do next on every category from housing to education to continuing education to employment opportunities, how a police department ought to deal with someone on the spectrum, particularly if they're severely autistic. all of those challenges we have a blueprint from gao and we're awaiting it from the

i was visiting one of those atlanta.n new york and the frustrating part for me was gao and ig made a number of recommendations over a year ago. the a had not completed any of them when they said they would. i asked during the hearing this week are you going to complete his recommendations that you say you agree with? it is frustrating to sit here in committee and have someone a year ago tell us we agree with all that and not do any of it. i think they have new leadership. one of the problems is leadership again. they are trying to get a permanent director. i think that line is heading in the right direction. if we can believe that we heard, both ranking member walsh was encouraged by what we heard. steve: republican from tennessee , thank you very much for being with us on newsmakers. we appreciate it. rep. roe:-having me on. the v.a. secretary is front and center in much of the discussion. what are the challenges he is facing? ie: the broad overhaul of community care combined with accountability legislation. this is something that congress has been working to make improvements, phys

but one of the senators, the ones in new york and atlanta -- the frustrating part for me was gao and ig made a number of recommendations over a year ago. the v.a. hadn't completed any of them when they said they would. i asked a question during a hearing are you going to , complete those recommendations that you say you agree with? it is really frustrating to sit here in a committee and have someone a year ago tell us we agree with all that then not do anything. i think we have new leadership. and one of the new problems was leadership again. they are trying to get a permanent director. i think that line is heading in the right direction. from what i heard the other day, we can believe what we heard, folks, ranking member walsh and myself, were encouraged by what we heard. steve: the house veterans affairs committee, republican from tennessee, thank you for being with us here on newsmakers. we appreciate it. phil roe: thanks for having me on. steve: let's go back to the secretary's comments, what is the biggest challenge he is facing? kellie mejdrich: i think just the broad overhaul

gao published a report last march into itted u.s. government should strengthen human rights vetting for egypt. they're not doing all of the vetting that they should be doing. turn the approach to terrorism. it's just not succeeding. the tactics of the egyptian government appear to be failing. just as the tourist attraction have become routine, so too have heavy 46 handed jinx responses resulting in civilian casualties. michelle dunn mentioned this video that just surfaced. an analysis by the carney endowment recently concluded state sanctioned violence has increased local anner against the military. that's in the sinai. egyptian policy has shifted some sympathy from the military to the militants who are increasingly seen as a way to take revenge at sinai. i think actually that the egyptian handling of this is creating jihadies. if you take 60,000 preliminary prisoners -- and that's the number in egypt, people who have not committed acts of violence. beat them up, toss them into p prison, keep them there for years, encars rate them wi

in which the gao was somewhat critical of the fda saying it -- let's see. lacks measurable goals to assess its progress in advancing regulatory science, the science supporting its effort to assess the products its relates. it goes on further to say there's lots of resources that have been given to the fda but that indeed they have not system tiesed how they account for the spending. any thoughts on that? >> thank you for the question, senator. i think that i'm familiar with the report, i've reviewed it in the past. i think that this is both a challenge and an opportunity trying to make sure that we not only have the best workforce possible in order to ensure the fda gold standard but that they have the best training, the best tools and are being forward leaning in trying to adopt the best science into the principals they use to govern the review process. and this is something when i was at fda with dr. mcclenen we initiated the clinical path initiative to demon extrafive the effort -- not just by reviewers, the tools on their desks but also the tools that t

gao put out a report last year criticizing the drug czar's office because it's been ineffective despite billions of dollars. part of my job is about the governor and he wants to take a look at where the money is being spent and how we can spend it better. we put a lot of our money in, but spent the money differently because we are not succeeding. elizabeth: when we talk about money, obviously we talk about the budget. the budget to attend the discussion will see a continuing resolution. talking about fiscal year 2018. when i look at new jersey in particular, things are/were your when you get programs like these getting cut. proposed of course. >> as part of the negotiation between the president and congress and he wants to try to get their attention on the way money can be spent better. they need to be examined. i'm a republican. i don't think washington d.c. is spending the money they spend wisely. i'm flood insurance, get the government out of the flood insurance business. right now feel the way you can get it is for the government. that's ridiculous. they screwed up flood insurance s

that was the result of the gao showing rampant violations being awarded millions of dollars of contracts so you're state dollars will find companies that discriminate against you. for has been a bill to introduce on april 14 known as the fate pair act -- fair pay act of 2017 but white women compared to white men make $0.80 to the white man dollar. the wage gap is even worse of women of color purple african-american is 63 native american is $0.60. hispanic or latino women is $0.54. a conservative estimate menendez a combined total of $500 billion every year due to the wage gap. me tell the world how to treat people but yet we have a president that says it is okay not to pay women fairly how do you vote on this issue could. >> that take the position until i read it and i have not sea not -- i have not seen it. but what is your position on the issue could. >> i believe in the market to set the wage rate that is the best way to go white command dates. >> so it is okay not to pay women fairly? >> i have two daughters and one them to get every dime they deserve. believe me. >> what will the re

>> yes, i mean, look, you know, the gao report from a year ago spoke about the serious problems the united states has made with end use monitoring and human rights vetting. you know, they're required by our laws based on obstruction by the egyptian government. i think we need to take another look at that and be serious about that, especially in view of these very troubling recent reports about extra judicial killings. >> got it. would you all support a continuation of the 15% withholding unless there's a certification that the egyptian government is making progress toward more democracy and human rights? >> actually i'd raise it. because last year has been really horrendous for human rights. so i would at least ask you to consider going to 20 or 25. >> i would agree with that. i think also that at a more basic level, as long as we continue to keep the $1.3 billion in fmf on autopilot and they know that's going to be approved every year and it's a question of how do we do it? that's another thing that sort of removes u.s. leverage. i think it's time for a sort of ground up assessment of wha

to do a study for them about what the data and the numbers are and what the gao came back with is we know what the numbers are but no one wants to tell us what they are. you can rely on information that helps to support your position without having to hold onto numbers. so what is that information that helps us? there is a food pantry operating on or near every single military base in the united states. i'll say that again. there is a food pantry operating on every single military base or near it in the united states. now, what does that tell you? that tells you that people who live on that base are struggling. the pantries that are located on military bases are available for people who are currently serving military. they are not there for the civilian staff that drive onto the base and work there. they are not there for the young man who's just out of high school and spent all his money on a camaro or flat screen tv or surfboard or whatever it is. we've heard amazing stereotypes about people and what our information revealed is that there is a glitch in the law that precludes activ

look at this gao report.ameman officials require all requested information in a timely manner. >> mitt romney pays taxes on all the money earned from the came man entities. >> i would think it would be like pirate heaven, some pirate would go and steal all the >> we >> well, that actual live doesn't happen because the rules are understandable. >> our laws are so complex, even regulators don't understand the the s.e.c. investigated bernie madoff six times but didn't stop >> ber >> bernie madoff could never have gotten away in cayman what he got away with here in the u.s. >> >> america's complex laws only pretend to stop fraud. remember the solution after the enron scandal? >> with the tough new law, we will act against those who have shaken confidence in our m >> tha >> that gave us a law called sur veins oxley which cox americans billions in paperwork but didn't prevent madoff's fraud or the next bubble. >> the economy in crisis. big banks in a death spiral. >> banks made bad decisions. it makes sense that yo

but in reality, as you guys know, 2016, the gao put out a report that most companies do not pay that 35% rate. also, in the plan, what is going to come out we think and the treasury secretary confirmed this today, there would be a 15% reduction for major companies and also through -- for pass through entities, which are basically business owners who put everything on their personal return, business income as well. that's major and that actually can impact president trump as well. now, the big question is, as suzanne eluded to, how do you pay for it? there is a $4 trillion hole. but there are two other questions that are doing going to be at the top of business leaders minds. one, is this temporary, or is this permanent because coes want to plan forward. they want permanent change. and if this is temporary, it is not exactly or it's not at all tax reform. and then the other big question for average americans is what happens to the middle class? why aren't we hearing more about how this plan will impact the middle class. those are two big questions. overall, though, if we go back to th

. >> reporter: at the request of senate democrats, the gao will now review trump's travel to mar-a-lagoif the expenses are fair and reasonable. local officials both here in palm beach and also in new york where trump tower is located is asking the secret service about reimbursements but they have not heard back. meanwhile, a palm beach county commissioner is looking at adding extra taxes on the mar-a-lago property to recoup some of the money. >> gabe, thanks so much. gabe gutierrez out of florida. >>> stay with us, the latest on the report that a man has killed a person using facebook live video streaming after this. per roll more "doing chores for dad" per roll more "earning something you love" per roll bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty, the quicker picker upper you're going to be hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play? ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what

. >> at the request of senate democrats, the gao will review the mar-a-lago travel to find out if thehallie. >> gabe, local police, local folks down there, do they know whether they'll get reimbursed or not? is that a possibility? >> that is the big question right now. local officials here in palm beach, as well as ones in new york, where trump tower is located, they've asked the secret service when they might get reimbursed and they've not officially heard back. the local sheriff said publicly he's spoken with trump personally and was reassured he'd be reemreimbursed. there is an idea floating of rezoning mar-a-lago to add extra taxes to recoup some of the money, hallie. >> gabe gutierrez, live from west palm. >>> back with me now, anna and aaron. gabe makes a piece, other presidents also traveled. former president bush went to crawford. president obama did the hawaii and martha's vineyard trips. is this different or is it overblown? >> it's different in that it is more frequent and his own property, as gabe mentioned, is promoting. mar-a-lago is in the headlines every weekend, fanta

we drew heavily from the gao, from the anti-gun testing office , test and evaluation. we found this system is in worse shape than most every last. -- we tried to look at why it ended up this way. we ended up looking a lot at the oversight and accountability system set up around the system. we found that it undermines the gmb system of development. rather than summarizing the , i will make three short points that i think reflect the differences between our reports. tom -- the first, we agree that the system is in poor shape. tom has described the gmd system as being in its adolescence for an advanced prototype. he notes the system currently has serious reliability issues. this is a substantial agreement between the both of us. in nine of theat 17 tests since 1999, the kill vehicle failed to destroy the target. that record has not been improving over time. also that the tests were developmental in nature. prototype tests -- the type of test, they were expected on simplified conditions, not operational conditions, which are considered to be much more challenging. defender

>> yes, look, the gao report from a year ago spoke about the very serious problems the united states has had with end-use monitoring and human rights vetting that are required by our laws based on obstruction by the egyptian government, so i think we need to take another look at that and be serious about that, especially in view of these very terrible reports of extra judicial killings. >> unless there's a verification that the egyptian government is making more strides toward human rights? >> last year has been really horrendous for human rights. so i would consider going to 20 or 25. >> i would agree with that. and i think also at a more basic level, as long as we ten to keep the 1.3 billion on auto pilot, and they know it's going to be approved every year and it's just a question of how we do it, that's another thing that sort of removes some u.s. leverage. i think it's time for a sort of ground-up assessment of what is really needed to help egypt effectively and in a way that we think we can monitor and respect our own laws and so forth in doing. >> i strongly agree with dr. dunn

it's a referral to the gao.d on precedent would be to have to repay all of that money that he did take. >> are we talking about a great deal of money. >> depends on perspective. tens of thousands of dollars. yeah. >> are you saying there's not -- there's not a crime attached to that type of. >> it's not a statute. there is a statute that says you have to seek this permission and begranted this permission. that's true for all military office officers. even if they left work at the pentagon. still on call, so to speak. >> is it a crime not to report. >> it's a violation of the statute. that's what we found out. maybe there's a letter out there. we think someone would have produced it by now. >> i want to ask you about your colleague chairman nunes and what he's done. i know house members are reluctant to criticize other house members. can you explain his actions and defend his actions and not telling the truth about the investigati information and where he got it. >> he said he was sorry about that. i think he did

by the gao. >> do you have an audit you can provide to my office? >> absolutely. >> fantastic. >> we have two audits every year. >> have you looked at that recently? have you looked at the audit recently? >> i look at it every year. >> you tell me how many checks have been written to actual victims out of the civil penalty fund? >> i think there have been millions of checks. >> no, no. what you do when i read your report, you lump all of the money together, and you say you have helped millions of people. but what i would like to know is, specific checks, be rather than seeing like i do in this report after page 131, that you gave a huge chunk of money to some law firm for uncompensated victims. i would like to know exactly who you're writing checks to. >> we didn't give any chunk of money to a law firm. >> who is the firm that's identified on page 132 or 133? >> so it's victims of those practices. >> so there were four victims. >> of individual consumers. nobody gets some big chunk of money from us. >> page -- >> consumers who were victims. >> page

we drew heavily from the gao, from the pentagon's own testing office, we essentially found the system is in worse shape than most people had realized. and i think that's an area of substantial agreement between our reports. and we tried to take a look at why we thought it ended up this and so and so we ended up looking a lot at the oversight and accountability system set up around the system. and we thought -- we found that it undermined the gmd system's deve rather rather than summarizing the whole report, i'm just going to make three short points that i think reflect the differences and agreements between our repor i think i think tom, the first is we agree that the system is in pretty poor shape. tom and his co-authors describe the gmd system as being in its adolescence or essentially in advanced prototype and notes that the system currently has some serious reliability issues. this is an area of substantial agreement between the both of i would us. i would note in 9 of the 17 tests since 1999, the kill vehicle failed to destroy the target. and and that record hasn't actually been

and the members of congress with asked the gao to do a study for them about what the numbers are.we know the numbers are there, but no one wants to tell them what they are. you can rely on information that numbers.support these what information helps us? there is a food pantry operating on or in every single military base in the united states. i will say that again. there is a food pantry operating on or in every single military base in the united states. what does that tell you? they are struggling. the pantries are available for people currently serving military. they are not there for the civilian staff that drive onto the base and work there. they are not there for the young man who is just out of high spends all of his money on a camaro or a flat screen tv or a surfboard or whatever it is. heard amazing stereotypes about people. and what our information revealed is that there is a glitch in the law that precludes active duty, currently serving members of the military from applying for snap. no one into and it is. it's a relatively easy legislative fix we hope we will be able

. >> the gao conducted a study recently of the advertising public relations funds that were spent by various agencies in the government. maybe it's known by you, but cfpd won. you were the big winner in terms of percentage overall spent from your budget. and -- >> i'm sorry. spending on what? >> on advertising and public relations. >> ok. all right. >> yes, sir. this is a math that equaled about 2.5%. a very significant amount of money, and yet the other agencies that game p came close to you, you were greater than the department of defense. do you feel like the mission of your agency is more important than the department of defense's objective is of course to recruit -- >> i certainly don't. >> but we -- >> we with read that report differently. it appointmented out there are ten agencies of the federal government that do 95% of advertising for the federal government. we're not one of those. we do devote a small percentage of our budget -- >> the one state -- let me claim my time. the study indicated that i spent more than any other aelgt. the fact there -- >> depending on. >> $20 mi

. >> i know when we asked the gao they said at least 112 and probably more. but they couldn't figure it out. i know one of the things the , coordinate the agency efforts. it is a question i want to all to let us know and answer to as well as getting back to us about what would you suggest that the administration do and work with congress to combat this deadly problem. we will have intense hearings here about things like ebola or flu, but we are far past that with fentanyl and opioids. we need your suggestions to work together. i said to a colleague, we have a shared passion in this area, it is unquestionable. we have to work together. there is no silver bullet. the states have to handle it a different way. virginia, with the disability rates and unemployment rates, it would be different for massachusetts or utah or anywhere else. there is a letter that we sent with several questions. when can we expect some answers to that? it is in final clearance. we hoped to get it to you this morning and will get it to u.s. and as possible. thank you for the letter. >> ok

. >> i know when we asked the gao to do this they said at least 112 probably more but they ouldn't figure it out. i know one of the things the committee did this coordinate he agency efforts. it's a question i wanted you to let us know. what would the administration do do? e will have intense hearings but we are far past the opioids and we need your suggestions to work together. we have a shared passion in this area and this is one we have to work together. the states have to handle it a different way with the disability rates and unemployment rates would be different for massachusetts or utah or anywhere else. there is a letter that we sent with several questions and maybe we can expect some answers to that? >> it is in the final clearance we hoped to get it to you this morning that we will get it as oon as possible. >> let me just say i want to thank all of the members that articipated in today's hearing and you have ten business days to submit questions so the witnesses have time to respond. we look forward to working with you and with the bad, the hearing is adjourned. and you have te

gao did an analysis back in 2002 in which they found that nobody could really estimate how much fraud there was. don, who was the head of fdns, testified before this committee back in the 113th congress, i think it was, and indicated that a study had been undertaken that had found a fairly significant amount of fraud, but that it had never been completed for various reasons within cis. there is fraud. there are other forms of fraud, but just based on the number of creditability determinations or adverse creditability determinations and application it would be asylum. >> do you think it's a major problem or a minor problem, the degree of fraud? >> i would always do a creditability determination in every case that i did. in every asylum decision that i issued whether i granted or denied. i would guess that probably in a fairly large number of those cases i made adverse creditability determinations that were sustained by the board of immigration appeals in the third circuit where i sat. >> last question. ms. vaughan, what are the three policies you feel would be most effective in keeping

the gao -- i have not read the specifics, but if question of bonding -- >> bonding, yes. >> i'm from montana, where we have d.r.c. we have a lot of coal mines, strip mines and stuff. i think bonding is important. from a state that, in the 1800's, mined gold by going and down stream beds and taking all the material and down.g it upside i don't think we'd want to go back to those days. reclamation problems we have, and face in the west, still are not repaired. so as a teddy roosevelt -- teddy roosevelt had the courage to look 100 years forward. i think we need to have that look back andand say we did it right. >> i hope that was a great endorsement of stream protection. but on the teddy roosevelt point, i'll ask you that later. point,teddy roosevelt you've made comments. do you support making the land programr conservation permanent? >> i do. i think land and water conservation has been important to montana, certainly in many of the states. i do think we should look at it if you're in -- the gulf states, i understand point, that the revenue comes from all offshore and very goes within

>> i am not an expert on this topic, but i have -- i believe that gao has done a number of reports that in the way my understanding of their conclusions was at the early rounds of brac actually did result in recurring savings over time in the single-digit billions, and i could get the exact figure for you, but i'm sure your staff could get to that report or i could provide it. the -- the brac ground that sort of poisoned the well was the last one because it really was a realignment and consolidation, brac really wasn't a closure brac, by and large and so it didn't save a lot of money and the way in which the process worked left a lot of sour taste in the mouths of many people who participated. so i think there are certainly lessons to be learned in how to go about this to ensure that it is worth the pain associateded with doing it, but i do think the the early rounds of brac demonstrate that real savings could be had over time. given the extent of the overhang, when you have service chiefs saying i have 20% to 25% more infrastructure than i need and it's taking money away from readiness