joining me now is lily garcia, who's vice president of the national education association and back withate professor at columbia university. okay, i have all the feelings, and i know it's because this is my real job. so i had all the -- like, i get this is not everybody's biggest problem. but i really was astonished by this market place discourse. >> and i'm a sixth grade teacher from utah. and as i was looking at this, we want our kids in that pipeline to college. we want graduation to be the key to, you know, we'll get into higher education, whether that's trade school, community colleges, universities, you can go as far as you want to go. and we've never said, we will judge that university by how much money you make after you graduate. we talk about like expanding their possibilities. what it means to be alive. and so, as i was, like you, listening to affordable college, and going, yes! pell grants, restructure those loans, according to your income. that makes sense. i went to college on a national direct student loan. 3%, had ten years to pay for it. paid for it in eight. my country