and gary abernathy is a contributing columnist at the washington post.ome all four of you to the program. thank you so much. let me just lay down the basics. what words would you use, george packer, to describe what happened on january 6? and how much does it matter that we get to the bottom of it, that we hold those responsible accountable? >> at the time, i thought it was an insurrection, and i still do, directed by the president. and i still think that. but i underestimated it. i thought it was a kind of wild shot that nearly hit its target, could have been fatal, but that we dodged. that's not how i see it now. i think it was actually a warning shot and almost a searching for the target that did miss but that found how to get the target next time. and in the year since january 6, what we've seen is efforts by both national republicans and state legislatures and major figures in the party to figure out how to use january 6 to make sure that next time, it works, and next time what didn't work for donald trump in overthrowing the 2020 election and the c

judy: gary abernathy, do you see, from where you sit politically, a way through this that keeps our democracyg? gary: well, one thing i constantly try to argue for is, judy, we need to respect each other again. we need to respect each other's differences again. i don't care what polls you look at. if you look at polls that say 40 percent of americans and 80 percent or 90 percent of republicans think the election was stolen, we can't suddenly just demonize and minimize these people as the americans that they are. we have got to work our way through this, talk our way through this, not, not just divide into our media camps and our feeds that just reinforce what we believe. we have got to do a good job of continuing to communicate. and, eventually, truth wins out. judy: stu stevens, do you see that as the way through this? stuart: yes, well, i think that's a, i think that's a fantasy. you can't negotiate with evil. how do you negotiate with the person who is in the capitol of the united states in a camp auschwitz sweatshirt? you don't want to meet those people halfway you don't need to understan