gary k, the fiscal cliff is the grinch?fortunately, it is, it's the most important time of the year, and the profits are mad and the problem is simple. uncertainty, uncertainty, uncertainty. nobody knows where they are and nobody knows how much money thr they're going to have to spend and the outcome is worse. higher taxes and less money in the economy and less money to buy. retail no good. but, susan, actually the national retail federation is saying we should see increase in holiday sales like 4%? >> that's right, brenda andnd i'm still staying optimistic, two really important numbers at that came out this week, the university of michigan consumer confidence survey shows that it's at the highest level since july of 2007 and additionally, the expectations for the next six months are also at the the highest level in five years, despite the uncertainty, consumers are feeling pretty good and the word out of washington today, is a lot of trying to work together. >> well, gary b, actually, i mn, do you know what it means if we

gary k?ere we go ain. >> my friend we'll be bailing out the bailouts and that's the type of nation we've become. everything off the taxpayers back and it's just going to continue infinitum. the fha was okay, and now we're talking 93 billion. i've got news, 93 billion see it at 150 when all is said and done. >> ben stein, what do you think about this. >> it has to be bailed out. it's a government guarantee, it's unfortunate it happened and i feel bad about it. a governor gain tee has to be honored. >> charlie. >> it has to be bailed out. let's delineate. it's fha, part of the government. and the difference between fannie mae and freddie mac. and they were public companies, and there was stock and they were covered by the government. these guys don't have stock. yes, we have to bail them out, accepted and it's government. >> people have been getting 1/2% down money mortgages. 3 1/2%, it was 20% in the 30's, 10% in the 60's. 5% is how much you have to have down if you refinance through the fha.