gavin ashenden, what is going on over there in rome?just bishop strickland that's being attacked and of course, we don't know what's going to happen because he with yet. he hasn't met with the pope yet. so be asked to resign. he so he may be asked to resign. he may not be, but it seems to me that the pope is stacking the deck and he's just pushed a load of into the house of liberals into the house of cardinals, essentially cardinals, which essentially means time there's means that the next time there's an election the pope, it an election for the pope, it could potentially another could potentially be another francis . francis. >> that's one way of >> well, that's one way of looking it. but i think looking at it. but i think probably want to put in probably we want to put it in a in a broader, more helpful context. is that the context. and that is that in the middle last century, the middle of the last century, the catholic church reach catholic church tried to reach out contemporary culture and out to contemporary culture and to build

gavin ashenden . good dr. gavin ashenden. good afternoon to you, gavin . this is these are values that aren't particularly associated with what we deem to be a traditional church . is this be a traditional church. is this proof of the church going woke ? proof of the church going woke? >> yes, i'm afraid it is. >> and g.k. >> yes, i'm afraid it is. >> and gk. chesterton famously said the problem was that there wasn't that christianity been tried and found wanting. >> it had been found too difficult and not tried. so one of the things has happened over the last 20 or 30 years is that the last 20 or 30 years is that the propaganda about sexuality, which is unchristian, has triumphed and christian culture is being let go of. and that's really rather tragic that the state church shouldn't understand and what it is to be christian in terms of human anthropology and the way we practise our sexuality. >> another really concerning point in this, gavin, as well as 80% of priests said they welcome a female archbishop of canterbury , 36% back assisted canterbury, 36%

gavin ashenden, associate editor of the catholic herald. tator, evans, political commentator, and denis macshane, former labour minister for europe. well, i'm going to start with with you, gavin . gavin, your with you, gavin. gavin, your thoughts . thoughts. >> well, the relationship between christianity and politics can be complex. and so i don't think it's sensible to say in all circumstances the church can't have a political opinion. >> but i don't think we need to go that far because we're faced with a phenomenon at the moment, which the archbishop of which is that the archbishop of canterbury always speaks with a left wing bias , and i think left wing bias, and i think that's what has made him inaccessible to us. >> the reason why i don't particularly want to hear his political views is i know i'm going to hear a progressive, left wing socialist orient hated political view, which may or may not have anything to do with christianity. if half of his views from the right and views were from the right and half from the left, then i'd want s