the white house timothy geithner on capitol hill today. he went there empty-handed to meet the party leaders. house speaker john boehner who has already offered to raise tax revenue finds himself not in a negotiation, but rather competing in the white house media campaign. this is how speaker boehner reacted earlier today to the demands of the white house that were laid out by timothy geithner in a closed-door meeting. the treasury secretary reiterating the president's call for $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue and timothy geithner rrently offering nothing in return. in lieu of federal pending. >> first, despite the claims that the presint supports a balanced approach, democrats have yet to et serious about real spending cuts. secondly, no progress has been made in the talk between the white house and house over the last few weeks. this is not a game. lou: press secretary jay carney doesn't understand what speaker boehner sid. jay carney said the president is open tideas as long as those ideas include a tax hike on the top 2% of the nations

scored from the treasury treasury over foreign exchange swaps during this transition out for timothy geithner bob english is here to talk about it all from studies out feet plus third quarter g.d.p. growth was revised up to two point seven percent up from the two percent gain previously reported by the commerce department and just short of expectations now reports are that this game could reverse but more important than that should we put stock in g.d.p. as a measure of the economy's health at all we'll discuss and earlier this week we asked the national commentator peter schiff about his hyper inflation calls. i know that you're saying you can't predict when this is going to happen but why haven't we seen that happen well you know i guess i still say the hyperinflation is the worst case scenario is. that interview received traction from a certain new york times economist will discuss in loose change let's get to today's capital account. today we'll forget about the fiscal cliff for a moment and talk about some other deadlines approaching that may create a potential regulatory cliff for inves

treasury geithner is making some major moves before he has for the door and one which we've seen recently is the final word that foreign exchange swaps from dodd frank derivatives regulation are exempt for context according to bloomberg big banks like u.b.s. and deutsche bank lobbied for this exemption and here is a sense of why foreign exchange contracts were the second largest source of derivatives trading revenue for u.s. bank holding companies in the second quarter the company's reported three point one billion dollars in revenue on trading of foreign exchange derivatives foreign exchange swaps and forwards are part of a four trillion dollar global daily market for foreign exchange but is that really all because actually it could be more than that our guest put together this chart showing outstanding over the counter derivatives take a look ok so making up the largest swath of that is interest rate swaps three hundred seventy nine point four trillion dollars there but does this exemption that timothy geithner gave to forex swaps essentially exempt interest rate swaps to now for ex wop

timothy geithner out speaking with ms. pelosi among others talking about ways these two sides can come together. as soon as nancy pelosi takes to the podium, we'll take you there live. >> eamon javers standing by there in washington. what can we expect to hear from her? all day long wae've been hearin from both party sides. i can imagine we'll hear the same thing from nancy pelosi, the minority leader in the house. >> i think you're right. obviously the democrats have been saying the republicans aren't serious. the republicans have been saying the democrats aren't serious. i've been trying to get a sense of what she might say. they're very aware the movements if the market today have been very much pegged to what these members of congress are saying. whenever whatever we hear her say, you can be very sure she's saying it intentionally and clearly and be aware it might have a market impact. they're bearing all that in mind as they craft the comments here. what we're doing now is waiting for her meeting with tim geithner to

treasury secretary tim geithner was on a mission today. the cameras watching him arrive at one location and leaving another meeting with all four party leaders in congress hoping to make some type of head way on the fiscal cliff negotiations. dave: peter barnes has been on tim geithner's trail all day long and joins us from capitol hill. we had little snippets of moon news that move to the markets. peter: treasury secretary left capitol hill here with republicans angry. we got a statement out of senator mitch mcconnell, senate republican leader after his meeting with tim geithner and he said, quote, they took a step backwards. according to a senate leadership republican leadership source secretary tim geithner came to the meeting basically read proposing the president's demand for $1.6 trillion in new tax revenue from wealthier americans. john boehner also met with secretary and 8 this morning and he was not happy either. take a listen. >> despite claims that the president supports a balanced approach, democrats have yet to get serious abo

treasury secretary tim geithner playing a key role as negotiator.ave a strong relationship with house speaker john boehner. how do personal relationships affect political judgments in washington? joining me now, msnbc political analyst and columnist for "the hill," karen finney and republican strategist john braybender. good morning to both of you. it's interesting because tim geithner was persona non grata, including from speaker boehner. geithner has said he isn't the most likely guy to be going up on capitol hill. is this about his relationship with the speaker? what is it about? >> i think it's partially that. also, tim geithner is respected, he does still have respect among folks on wall street and business leaders. so a no of the stakeholders respect what he has to say. i think people see him as an honest broker and straight shooter. i can tell you i've been in meetings with him. he can be very direct and very blunt, but he also has a very solid understanding of the mechanics of our economy but also sort of the big picture which i think is so

connell: treasury secretary tim geithner meeting with congressional leaders and doing so as we speak. dagen: peter barnes live from capitol hill. peter: treasury secretary tim geithner arriving at our or so ago to hold meetings with top congressional leaders. senate democratic leader harry reid, now he is meeting with house speaker john boehner, that meeting just getting underway, after that meeting with senate republican leader mitch mcconnell and house democratic leader nancy pelosi and with the president and republicans on raising taxes republicans are trying to shift the focus to spending cuts and entitlement reform. >> i hope when tim geithner comes to capitol hill that he will put forward something concrete. so far all we got out of the administration are these demands for higher taxes, they're willing to discuss what is driving federal spending and debt and that is in title and programs. peter: we learned president obama and john boehner spoke for 15 minutes last night. i just bumped into a senior leader among senate democrats and asked him how he felt about this news and he sa

tim geithner was up there today and had specifics according to the republicans. what he brought to the table. proposal detailed to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases in ten years an new round of stimulus spending. this is how it broke down. $960 billion there. additional tax increases equal to $600 billion. 2009 level estate tax. multiyear stimulus package starting with at least $50 billion next year alone. permanent increase in the debt ceiling, the debt limit enough to avoid it. in exchange, $400 billion in savings from the medicare and other entitlements to be worked out next year with no guarantees. that didn't go over well. syndicated columnnist charles krauthammer. what is going on here? >> you know, up until today i didn't think -- i did think that the president had shown leg on entitlement reform. he did no 2011. when the house speaker failed to reach a grand bargain. you heard signals from dick durbin said on the sunday shows that medicare had to be on the table. he circled back and say it couldn't be part of the down pa

they didn't want anything to do with geithner's plan. yesterday, john boehner moved the markets higher. it was joyful talk about a possible deal, but today, it was like a break-up over tax. he went from love to disgust. here he is right after tim geithner put that deal on the table. >> no progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. >> all right. that's pretty grim. stocks lost early games on that news and the day went downhill. harry reid slapped back. >> still waiting for a serious offer from the republicans. >> so, they agree on something. no progress. but then it actually went beyond that. reid got a little personal. >> i don't understand his brain so you should ask him, okay? >> funny, but really not so funny. so what happens when the men in charge start throwing sand in the sand box? we just go over the cliff like some are now suggesting? recall what err skine bowles said two weeks ago. >> i think that's crazy. you know, why would you bet the country? really bet the country by g

timothy geithner arriving on the hill moments ago. geithner is on the senate side then on the house side. art laugher who won the show nor reagan with so many ideas in the 1980 is our guest in 35 minutes. we'll talk to him about it then. martha: yes we will. in the meantime how about those two winning tickets? are they in your hand? they are not in mine. well, the record powerball jackpot was won last night. one person was in missouri, the other one in arizona. no word on whether the tickets belonged to individuals or the big office-type pools who are always so agreeable when dividing things up. what did folks say they would do with all the money out there. >> really, really big house, a couple of cars, motorcycles. 64 mustang. >> lots to the church. lots of money to church to help others. >> quit my job for sure. yes. i will be out of here. i won't even tell anybody. i'll just disappear. martha: that's great. i like the 64 mustang idea myself. adam housley is live in los angeles, so, adam for everyone in the grand canyon and show me

he said that geithner didn't offer him specific spending cuts but he didn't say what was in geithner'sy, geithner came up here to say something to speaker boehner. we didn't learn what that was, other than boehner now is disappointed, carl. >> it's not just the inclusion of what they say but the omission, often times. you're right, he was asked specifically are you walking away. in his words, no, no, no. they're trying to keep the point alive that the talks are in fact alive as well. eamon javers on capitol hill, thanks. >>> a columnist for yahoo! finance -- disclosure -- cnbc and yahoo! have a business alliance to share and produce editorial content. mike, welcome back. it is an illustration of just how vulnerable we are in getting buffetted by these talking points. >> you almost feel like if the market is flat after the press conference it is kind of a victory because of what have damage might have been done. i do think both sides are sitting there flinching -- both sides meaning buyers and sellers -- both flinching because of this fear both negotiating have in their game plan a line

fiscal cliff talks today continue with geithner making the rounds on capitol hill.his morning, third quarter gdp expected to be revised higher. economists expect gdp for july to september to be revised from 2% to 2.8%. that would be good news. this is still modest growth. everyone hopes that next year will be a better year than this one in terms of growth. you want to see more than 2.5% growth consistently. >> i will say amen to that. >>> if at first you don't succeed, coming up, south korea trying to launch another rocket. find out how it went this time. >>> and if you are leaving the house now, watch us any time on your desk top or your mobile phone, just go to cnn.com/tv. a , try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own

tim geithner, he's going out to talk to these leaders. what does he say, for example, in these meetings with reed and t reid and the other leaders? >> opening line is it's dangerous to get over the cliff so let's get there. my reporters tell me there are contours to a deal. the senate democrats moving a little on entitlements. a day after dick durbin number two democrat said we shouldn't talk about entitlements in the fiscal cliff deal. i'm hearing from senate leadership aides who are saying it's the republicans' job to put entitlements on the table. we don't want to negotiate with ourselves. we don't want to put both tax increases and entitlement cuts on the table. it's up to republicans and we'll come back with a counter. you can't force us to put an opening bid on entitlement cuts when we don't want any to begin with. and that's the movement. so i think even in public there's starting to be a little bit of moving and i think there is the ability for folks to get there. >> we do know pretty clearly i think that the white house thinks th

obama will be long gone. >> bob: you are saying -- geithner says $1.6 trillion?ic: it comes from tax increases. >> bob: on who? you're saying go over the cliff? >> andrea: i think the republicans step back and let the party crash the family car. then we can say well, you voted for it. you have wanted it. >> bob: we had an election and you lost. >> dana: but just because somebody else wins an election that doesn't mean you should violate the principles. let them lead. >> bob: i don't understand the principle of maintaining the tax rate on people. >> dana: gosh. >> bob: you know last year, the number of people in the top five%, the salaries are way up on the top. hedge fund who don't get anybody employed. rip off artist on wall street. rest of the people employed -- >> eric: you agree to get something done so we don't go off the fiscal cliff and sequestration to get kick in? genuine in negotiating and get a deal. >> andrea: we can do what we like. the catch phrase. kick the can down the road. coming up, trillion-dollar ticking time bomb in addition to one we're tal

so as we said, it is tim geithner's day on the hill. is this a sign that talks are being accelerating or hitting stumbling blocks? joining me now senator kent conrad. sir, great to have you here. we showed the headline at the top of the show, from politico, the fiscal framework emerging. are the contours of the deal really taking shape? you heard kristen welker saying the description of that phone conversation may not have been so curt as originally quoted. >> truth is, i don't know. because i've not been involved in those direct discussions. what i did know is in talking to colleagues, democrats and republicans, there is a growing sense that this has to be done, needs to be done in the national interests and that it will get done. so i'm encouraged by what i'm hearing in terms of the tone of comments from my colleagueses. >> so you talk about the tone of colleagues from the left, but also on the right, tom cole took heat from john boehner and others in the gop for urging his party to go along with the president's tax plan. take a liste

that's why geithner is the front man here. that sometimes matter more than anything else. on wednesday, the president brought back a campaign atmosphere. he surrounded himself with what he called average middle class families. it was all about ramping up political pressure on the republicans. >> if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. >> the president had a busy fiscal cliff day, also met privately with the ceo ofs of home depot, coca-cola and yahoo!. not to be out done on this pr front, house republicans made it public, hosting a group of nervous business leaders. they've signed on to a campaign called fix the debt. they want big spending cuts to supplement the coming tax hikes. >> i'm hopeful but i wouldn't put me anywhere near the optimistic category. we have a long way to go and a few days to get it done. >> don't forget that's erskine bowels. republicans are trying to put pressure on democrats even as democrats enjoy the moment on taxes. here is where republicans are on entitlements. >>

treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. campaign style rallies and one-sided leaks in the press are not the way to get things done here in washington. >> democrats today said they're confident a deal can be reached by christmas. but admit negotiations would need to pick up steam. as for senator reid, he says it's now up to the gop to make the next move. >> we're still waiting for a serious offer from the republicans. the president has made his proposal. we need a proposal from them. >> okay. let's dig in and bring in nbc's capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell. fill

but geithner has said he will not stick around for the rest of the president's second term. treasury secretary is a demanding job and a key assignment in the upcoming negotiations over tax reform and budget cuts. darren gersh details the likely candidates for treasury secretary. >> reporter: jack lew is the name most-mentioned to replace tim geithner at treasury and he is by far considered the man to beat. lew was twice head of the office of management and budget and he's now the president's chief of staff. >> he is an incredibly hard worker. he is very bright. he has a very deep experience base. he is extremely honest. if you are negotiating with him, you will get nothing but the truth and you can take that to the bank. all those things, you put them together it's not the most common package in washington. >> reporter: republicans are wary of lew, believing he bested them in budget negotiations last year. but the president trusts him and his pick would be a sign of just how important the budget talks are to the second-term agenda. other names often mentioned have more exper

you just heard tim geithner.said basically the president has said repeatedly that he's not going to extend any tax cuts for the higher end earnings even though that money on that small portion of people is not going to move the needle anyway. >> it's not going to move the needle. i think what we should do is take a big step back, take a deep breath. i know you mentioned earlier the president is meeting with some business leaders tomorrow. >> were you invited? >> if was not. i think the group going is a great group. i don't know if it's so important which ones of us are there. that doesn't really matter to me. it's a good group that's going tomorrow. i think the biggest thing we're going to focus on tomorrow is what's the takeaway from that meeting? are we going to set the tone of compromise, and hopefully these are just words today and let's see what the actions are. i don't care about words right now. let's see what the actions are. >> what are the implications for the financial services sector if we go off the

president for sending treasury secretary ti tim geithner to capitol hill with a proposal that led mitch mcconnell literally burst out laughing. >> the white house took three weeks to respond with any kind of proposal. and much to my disappointment, it wasn't a serious one. >> their beef is the president campaigned on $800 billion in tax increases by ending the bush tax cuts for the wealthy. but is now proposing double that. $1.6 trillion. by adding tax hikes on dividends and capital gains. plus, the white house wants $50 billion in new spending next term alone in long term deal about cutting spending. >> they want to have this extra spending greater than the amount they want to cut. not serious proposal. >> but the president may have the upper hand because the fiscal cliff talks allow him to back opposition to a corner, by framing this as the republicans raising taxes.

. >>> reporter: president obama dispatched his chief negotiator tim geithner to capitol hill to work on a "fiscal cliff" deal. house speaker john boehner came out of his meeting with the treasury secretary demanding the white house get serious about spending cuts. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. >> reporter: if a compromise isn't reached soon, automatic tax hikes and steep budget cuts will kick in january 1. geithner moved from one end of the capitol to the other encouraging lawmakers to sign off on an extension of middle class tax cuts now. democrats say their position is clear and they want a serious offer from republicans. >> the american people want us to avoid the "fiscal cliff" with a balanced approach. >> reporter: geithner is here in the halls of congress trying to clear some big hurdles with republicans. once a deal is closer president obama will take over the talks. so far independent senator joe lieberman is not encouraged. >> if we go over the cliff it's going to send the country back int

senator mitch mcconnell reportedly burst into laughter while geithner was in the middle of outlining obama's plan. and house speaker john boehner who described his phone call with the president wednesday night as disappointing was not impressed by the white house proposal. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. right now all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. it's time for the president and congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. >> boehner then raised the stakes by throwing the debt ceiling into the mix, suggesting that any plans to raise the nation's borrowing limit would have to be matched by spending cuts in the fiscal cliff deal. >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there's a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. i continue to believe that any increase in the debt limit has to be accompanied by spending reductions that m

geithner may be at the imf, not the imf, the world bank is another place. >> quickly, you said that geithnerng with on the fiscal cliff? >> he would be talking with the gang of eight. i heard an interesting proposal that i can't talk about just now the gang of eight and the mark warner folks. >> it's gang of eight plus mark warner, he's the ninth? >> i thought he was among the eight. >> i thought he was hosting dinners for the gang of eight. >> i thought he was one of them. >> he's been talking to the senators? >> maybe -- as far as i know. >> sounds like we have to leave it there. steve thank you and because you don't have the other side of your pin i need to say the requests have been pouring in for the cnbc "rise above" pins. steve if you want to get in on the call to action go to cnbc's facebook page, you and anybody else can request your own, go to facebook.com/cnbc, click on the "rise above" tab, fill out the form, click submit and shows up in the mailbox as they say the check is in the mail, the pin is in the mail. >> no cost. it's free. >> you know who came one the slogan. >> joe ker

geithner it go precise whereabouts. bret? >> bret: james rosen live on the north lawn. thanks. none of that was encouraging to wall street today. the dow lost 89. the s&p 500 fell seven. the nasdaq dropped nine. one of the main talking points for both sides in the fiscal cliff negotiations but especially the republicans, making sure the u.s. does not become the next greece. tonight, economically crippled country is getting another infusion of the bail-out money. senior foreign affairs correspondent amy kellogg has the story from london. >> they were peaceful but this was a protest. these greeks weary of seeing tensions shrink -- pensions shrink and jobs grow were not happy about the decision to grant them more in bail-out money. they know the feet will be held ever closer to the austerity fire. >> the long installment is not for the workers or the people. but the banks. for those drinking our blood. nothing can change. >> greece's new prime minister welcomed the deal to keep greece afloat, the feisty opposition leader d

that's a nod to republicans because they prefer geithner over the president's chief of staff jack lew who republicans believe is stridently opposed to big changes to health care entitlements like medicare and medicaid. white house officials insist though geithner will be in the lead, jack lew won't be far from the fiscal cliff talks. >> pelley: major, what is the white house willing to put on the negotiating table? >> scott, just about everything except social security. the president argues that social security is not driving the deficit problem. it has solvency issues of its own but the president wants those dealt with downstream, sometime next year and on a separate track. now congressional republicans, especially those eager-- or at least willing-- to raise tax revenue want social security, medicare and medicaid as part of the fiscal cliff negotiations. if that's the price tag of a grand bargain, the white house says at least where social security is concerned it's not going to buy. scott? >> pelley: major, thanks very much. it appears the new president of egypt may be backing away

i asked him what geithner specifically had put on the table, if anything. ryan declining to comment here. he said, i'm trying to keep a low profile these days. i'm not going to come on cnbc and tell but it. he did say he thinks speaker boehner's press conference a little while after the geithner meeting really speaks for itself. let's take a listen to what boehner had to say. this is a little bit of what spooked the markets earlier today. >> despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. and secondly, no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. >> so who is it, who's not being serious here? no surprise, the democrats think it is the republicans who aren't being serious up on capitol hill. take a listen to harry reid a little while ago as well. >> republicans know where we stand. we've said it, we've said it, we've said it so many times. president has said the same thing. it's been weeks -- at least two we

treasury secretary tim geithner put the president's cards on the table in those back-to-back meetings on capitol hill. the weekly standard reports that senator mitch mcconnell burst into laughter during his meeting with geithner. house speaker john boehner walked out of his, and he dished a helping of red meat rhetoric straight to reporters. >> you know, the president has warned us about the dangers of going over the fiscal cliff. but his actions have not matched his public statements. members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> the speaker's remarks riled the left and provoked this response from senate majority leader harry reid. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect, then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> with only a handful of legislative days left on the congress's calendar before the looming fiscal cliff becomes a raw reality, will the president and house gop find a way over the latest road black and back to the bargaining table? >>

reid told me -- no, there was no specific offer here today from geithner to the republican side. he said that the president of the united states made the democrats' over two weeks ago and there's been no new specific offer since then. i think that explains a little bit of why we saw this reaction from speaker john boehner a little while after he met with geithner. take a listen to how boehner described today's events. >> despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. and secondly, no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. >> sue, on a lighter note, it looks like there are negotiations going on up here. i just saw a plate of lunch being brought in to the room where we believe that secretary geithner is sitting right now. we're also seeing some of the aides go in and out of that room as well. so clearly deals are being crafted here. i saw rob nabors, the legislators aide from the white house in mitch mcconnell's office ws offic

when we come back, he practically laughed in tim geithner's face, we're told. that was the reaction from senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. what would it mean to you if the president got his way despite that reaction? that's no laughing matter. we'll have details on that and both sides of that contentious issue coming up. >>> and then a lot of theories about who would replace treasury secretary geithner. we'll hear from someone who says the best candidate to succeed him just met with president obama yesterday. trust us when we tell you it's not a name you've heard before for this job. >>> meanwhile, the parade of companies offering special dividends ahead of the cliff keeps getting bigger. why this boom for shareholders may turn into a bust for others. we'll explain when we continue on "the closing bell" for this friday. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- ♪ you can stay in and like something... ♪ [ car alarm deactivates ] ♪ ...or you can get out there with your family and actually like something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is

i would think that timothy geithner s not the man we met i would agree with you.s is actually shocking. i'm going to say that the president won, no contest there. can we get past the campaigning? are really just shows a lack of seriousness. gerri: all right. i would like you to hear eric cantor today. everyone is reacting to the president's plan. here's what he had to say. remap when he won his reelection, we won our reelection. this is not a game. gerri: it was only a matter of time before somebody said rope a dope. you have to bring out all the hyperboles come all the saints. you know, i'm thinking that it's very possible. if you look at the media coverage that republicans are going to get blamed for any mistakes that happen, any deal that is not stuck. when you think? >> here's the thing. you have to remember, for this to happen, you have to have two opponents. so far, we only have one guy in the rain. republicans have come to the table and said let's discuss what we can do moving forward. what we have from the president of him blaming republicans after he laid

others as well, secretary geithner, treasury. secretary panetta.l the second term look like in the cabinet? back with the panel. kirsten? what do you think? >> well, i think that it's not much of a secret that john kerry wants hillary clinton's job, and he seems to be really the only one in the running. before susan rice was talked about, but she probably didn't have enough stature anyway, but after the benghazi stuff, it sounds like she is totally -- >> bret: i saw bloomberg story today that she was in the, still in the running and one of the top choices. >> that's not what i heard. i heard it's pretty much down to john kerry. and that in terms of other big changes, i heard different things about holder but i did hear that janet napolitano is very interested in taking that job if he left. probably the white house chief of staff is leaving. perhaps he would end up at treasury. >> bret: jack lew. >> john knives a former boss of mine is talked about as a chief of staff. excellent choice. those are probably the big changes. >> bret: what about defense

treasury secretary timothy geithner. different things doesn't work and we've had several periods now where there was a choice made to defer. and this political system again. with all the to safer america decides to defer again in the hopes that americans give us more time to come together i think you. mistake. i think timothy geithner could use some poker talks he was hardcore on the for the with the guy has to speak no one that's what i was just like getting back to defer will so be it with the president i know i think you know not a good idea well turbo tax what he. what he can do if he so chooses if it comes to this if the president and congress fail to come to an agreement is he can evidently affect what is withheld from people's paychecks you know even if we go off the fiscal cliff of a deadly timothy geithner can say oh you know what don't withhold is much from their paychecks as these tax cuts adjusted expired would have typically do but he doesn't want you know it's you know this is interesting because it's a sta

i am told he is the new geithner, that's why he's key to these talks. judd gregg, a former insider, probably more about the budget than any human living being, i don't know if that's good or bad, but i'm going to give you your shot. >> i don't know where it came from, but i i'm it came directly out of the chief of staff's office working with the treasury secretary, something like this is so aggressive, almost like a labor union proposal in a negotiation. what i find disturbing about it, because i happen to think they should go to the simpson bowles template, first disturbing is the reversal of that ratio. >> and you're taking the revenue number up to 1 puff.6. the agreement of last summer was 800 billion, i think. when you go to 1.6, you're basically talking, even though the stated rate might have to go to 39 p 5%, you're talking actually about a rate of 42% when you throw in the rates and -- and the medicare, you're talking a 45% top rate. >> and they want to cap some deductions on top of that. matt miller, you came from a fiscally conservative adminis

the treasury secretary, geithner, was described as the lead negotiator. seen by many as a possible successor to geithner. gene sperling, now head of the national economic counsel and rob neighbors, the white house congressional liaison. when asked if secretary geithner had shown up at the office of house speaker john boehner today to begin negotiating, jay carney said he could not account for secretary geithner's precise whereabouts. shep. >> shepard: james rosen live at the white house. thanks. worries about the so-called fiscal cliff are not doing much good for our 401(k)s. stocks were down today. the dow lost almost 90. nasdaq fell 9. s & p 500 down 7. analysts say investors are concerned about whether these lawmakers will get together and reach a deal. those worries overshadowed a couple of positive developments. gerri willis is here. we got a report showing that americans are, i don't know, feeling better and so much of this is about how we feel about the economy. >> oh, yeah. that's right. investors may not like it, but consumers love it. their conf

now, the president, tim geithner, others are smart people. and i hope and trust they know what they're doing. but if i'm reading this this morning in memphis, tennessee, in pensacola, florida, i don't have a lot of confidence that progress is being made. if i'm a business owner or if i'm a voter or if i work for a large business anywhere in the country. that's what concerns me about this. >> i'm giving both sides the benefit of the doubt that they're going to make this deadline. i can't imagine they would want to make the faith in washington plunge even deeper than it already is. having said that, sam -- >> we're a step closer. >> -- check your notebook. tim geithner came to the table with something. where was the republicans? did they have something? >> this is richard's point which is that now that they have put this out there, i think the ball is in john boehner's court to say, okay, this is an absurd offer. here's something more practical. and you know, it's sort of a smart move politically, i guess, for the administration because spendin

geithner works till the end of the year.erskine bowles gets it, this will be a compromise, this will done through tax reform. i think bowles -- i don't think he will take that job unless the president endorses simpson bowles. as you moe know -- as you know simpson bowles. if we goes with jack lou, the current white house chief of staff, erskine bowles is a businessman. if he goes with jack lew, much more partisan. that mean it will be a hard-line on taxes. someone who makes $250,000 a year, and you have five kids, you live in long island, guess what you are a millionaire and billionaire. that's what he's saying because you are going to pay the same tax rates -- excuse me, same income tax rates as someone like warren buffett. that's the hard-line. we will see. i will say this, one thing about president obama. listen i report the news. i came out here on your shows last week, i told you he was going to win. liz: yeah. >> i cover this like baseball. personally i will tell you that people who know president obama will tell you h