tim geithner may be an idiot, but he is not a thug. >> i don't think he is an idiot. was a vendetta here. had the other two been swept up, i would have said i can understand, fine. only s&p and with the downgrade. >> i disagreed with you on the premise before when we talked about this and i was wrong. based on this affidavit, he did threaten s&p. suddenly, smartly, so he wouldn't get in trole for it but he made a threat. >> ben and adam. ben, what do you think? >> government officials are human. when they are threatened, they threaten back. they don't take a vow saying they will become government officials. standard practice. i believe it was tit-for-tat. >> okay. adam? >> i totally agree. it's not just government borrowers that complain. every issueer complains, corporations, too if they don't like the rating. >> he didn't threaten. >> he said you'll sleep with the shes. i'm kidding. i'm kidding. >> you should hear what i say. >> stick around. thanks to charlie and dagen. now how to play this so far in an ugly year. ♪ [ male announcer ] wt kind of energy is so abunda

rating according to the filing, timothy geithner air said to mr.in a phone conversation that the snb had done an enormous disservice to yourselves and that.ountry and you are we have reached out to secretary timothy geithner nehr for comment on this. the treasury department referred us to the justice department but following the story, interesting development in this case against standard and poor's. sandra: what would our understanding the of the implications of such a threat by the treasury secretary? >> it wouldn't look very good for the secretary or the obama administration but it would look like the wind here according to standard and poor's, this lawsuit for the justice department was in retaliation for standard and poor's doing this downgrade, and mr. mcgraw, don't want to put words in his mouth but he is trying to bolster recipe's argument in this case. sandra: breaking story, thank you for bringing it to us. the power mover of the hour is travel deal spike expedia, we are watching a big mover in the hour. took a hit after the internet sear

geithner's words that you can accept as reasonable, did you must discount.what was alleged, it looked very careful. >> here is the context in which the affidavit came into play. the government sued for $5 billion for fraud. that is not based on the credit worthiness downgrade. this is based on other activity that the government says s&p engaged in during the financial crisis. mcgraw-hill says, we want documents in discovery. why do you need that? we want to show a pattern of mr. timothy geithner's behavior. they are trying to connect all of those thoughts. this is a rare case. the defendant, mcgraw-hill wants all the documents to be made public, not the plaintiff. connell: we have had the jersey case in the news. as dagen was referring to, if you are careful in the way you threaten someone, it is almost like you can get away with it. >> let's take the other threat that is in the news today. connell: new jersey? >> yes. if it was said, there is no lawful interpretation of that. connell: we do not know if that was said. >> correct. they can only mean one thing

is all the drama because geithner got a little s&ped?ox business correspondent, charlie gasparino, james freeman from the "wall street journal" and james geller. if this is true this is smoking gun. >> what is the smoking gun? >> the fact he made the phone call and said, quote, s&p's conduct would be looked at very carefully. such behavior would not occur without a response from the government. the stops was the lawsuit. >> let me ask you, do you think the lawsuit is unwarranted? i've done a lot of research into the ratings agency behavior during the financial crisis. they were -- melissa: why were they only one? >> back up. both ratings agency, moody's and s&p and fitch to larger sense they were paid more to put aaa ratings on structured finance deals. melissa: is s&p only one sued. >> no, they deserve to be sued. only thing i can think of, this is based on reading e-mails, some of the emails involving s&p are more onerous or, just give you a little more intent to defraud investors than moody's. >> the answer is not a lawsuit. the answe

geithner's denying it.sn't entirely buying it, but it goes like this, why were moody's and fitch investors, two other ratings agencies, the dow, the same type generous rating of risky securities, before the meltdown, why weren't they fingered -- >> you know, i think we're trying to look for white hats and black hats, you kind of want them both to kill each other. the government created the financial crisis, along with s&p, and now the government is going after s&p. and i think you make a valid point. i did a whole book about this. there are some damaging e-mails on moody's part, but how they would rate a cow coming through the door, i think that was one of the e-malts. some of the e-mails out of s&p were pretty bad. if you're going to say net-net, this is not how justice should be done, net-net, the e-mails, the evidence, the civil case on the s&p, is a little worse than the moody's -- >> let me preface this, for people not up on this. the companies all did the same thing, assigning generous grades to debt

story, tim geithner said s&p's downgrade of u.s.ponsed be met by a according to the s&p coming out and saying there was a phone call that timothy geithner is said to have made back in august of 2011 when they came out and downgraded the u.s. and tim geithner saying, this is in fact not true. do you think this stuff is this has taken on a life of its own. >> i am highly skeptical tim geithner would threaten anybody. i worked with him for two years at the treasury department and it is just not the way he operates. the justice department started this investigation two years before the downgrade. it seems out of character to me. his spokesperson issued a statement saying it did not happen. i worked with jenny for several years. >> yes. i know jenny well and have interviewed tim geithner. no one thinks these things happened, but you look at what is happening in new jersey right now, and they tend to take on a life of their own. is politically motivated? why would they say this? >> i do not know what their motivation is. the justice depar

monday august the eighth man who runs the s&p gets a phone call from tim geithner, tim geithner saysyou are wrong, we are right. >> and then alerting him he was unhappy. >> and he says you are accountable for this, there will be a response to the government. speaker in fairness to the first amendment rights, a jury will be told if it comes to this, if there is a lawful interpretation of his words, they must accept the lawful interpretation. the only find his words are unlawful if there is no other rational interpretation. he could mean you will be held responsible, you will be held responsible in the court of public opinion. he does not have to prove its downgrade was accurate. the downgrade is an opinion as long as their opinion is based upon objective back, their opinion is protected speech. stuart: i have to make this point, to me this undermines the ability of a private sector company to make an objective financial analysis of our government, undermines it completely. >> it is the height of thuggery to threaten people when they say things or do things the government doesn't like.

geithner and this mcgraw hill, this s&p executive. and s&p is trying to dismiss similar lawsuits to 15 states that have brought a lawsuit as well. we can't allege retaliation in each one of these. we'll see if the defense holds up in court. gentlemen, thank you. >> you bet. >>> one year to the day since president obama was sworn in for his second term. the real clear politics polls show the ratings have been on a steady downward slide. a total swing of 20 points in the last 12 months. look at that, the red is the disapproval, the white is the approval. you can see they're going in the wrong direction for the president currently. ed henry is live in the snow at the white house. ed? >> megyn dedicated to you and your viewers. the poll numbers come down because i spoke to rob portman today, he said it's because of health care, the president's signature domestic achievement has broken promises on that issue that really brought those numbers down in the last couple months, the pushback from the white house tonight. i spoke to him in one of

tim geithner is mad, he's the treasury secretary. mairmd mcgraw stand his ground and says we are right. geithner says there will be a response from the government, you will be accountable. use said, along comes a $5 billion lawsuit against standard and poor's. a spokesman for former treasury secretary geithner says reports of the retaliation are false. these ratings companies are supposed to give objective financial judgments. they are supposed nod say objectively how -- they are showed to say objectively how a company or government is doing. you are not supposed to threaten a rating agency. if you do you are undermining that analysis and that's a very serious charge to make. martha: but if the u.s. government believes the numbers were not correct, and it seems that's their defense. they are saying the analysis was wrong and that was a huge detriment to the u.s. credit rating and we remember there was a huge reaction around the world when this happened. this is unprecedented. if they can prove s & p's numbers were wrong, don't they h

tim geithner was a economic bureaucrat but a guy that ran the federal reserve bank of new york.anker. he ran the biggest federal reserve bank. that is a huge thing as president of the federal reserve bank. you know markets. sandra: yesterday you reported larry fink is gunning for the position? >> he is too. from what i understand -- adam: under clinton administration should she be elected. >> there is lot of stuff going on with jack lew. there are clearly question marks about his ability to handle this job from people who are very close with tim geithner and deal with the treasury department and work in the treasury department. now that is clear. when you put that together with the sort of unexpected thing about el-erian, then the rumor mill starts. sometimes fun to talk about the rumors. adam: could be a bad year and it was really bad year. >> he had really bad -- i'm saying little connect the dots. sandra: it is an interesting move. >> i would say this, if jack lew stepped down in a year, nobody should be surprised. this is not a guy with a lot of qualifications. you are treas

that he got a call from tim geithner after the downgrade, and he says tim geithner says you have donemous disservice to yourself and to your country. and went on to say, s&p's conduct will be quote, looked at very carefully. such behavior could not occur, he said, without a response from the government. two weeks later the new york times, andy, reported that an investigation had begun in ernest against s&p. >> s&p alone. >> and now the lawsuit, comment on that declaration. >> well, i'm betting that he also has con temtemporaneous no. i imagine he will have a way to back it up. they wouldn't have a recording, but you have that, the fact that the investigation clearly ratcheted it up, and they were cleared and moody's wasn't. unfortunately, it doesn't make them innocent. it makes the case stink. >> what are they trying to do? in other words, we may have done it but the other guys are so bad you can't -- >> and it could be telling the justice department, look, you want to rock and roll at this trial? this is going to be an ugly trial and you're not going to come out of it. >>> coming up,

heas nothing on tim geithner.ow that the former treasury secretary back in 2011, after the s&p downgraded the u.s. debt, then it would be met by a response. and you have to wonder. the government was suing for high ratings to all of the junk mortgage debt before the meltdown. and what about the credit rating. no one can tell better prosecutors otherwise. we had three have three ratings investigations and only one is sued. especially when the treasury secretary says that there will be a response. neil: that is the parent company for the s&p 500. so you could glean even fm that as well. the conventional wisdom is you speak not in code because that is too criminal oriented. to speak guarded th carefully. and he didn't say that we are going to see you in retaliation. and the point is they know how to play the game. but the point is that they have a point in this lawsuit. and i forget that they so that they are going to pay them back and i'm not suggesting that that is the case. and i'm wondering if that is what they l

tim geithner was new york fed chair at the time of the bailout.n was the treasury secretary. tim geithner became treasurysech lefter office. ben bernanke just left as fed chair. i believe when it gets public and i believe it will get public and we'll get a bird's-eye view exactly how one of the most momentous events of bail out of financial system including the bailout of this huge company, one case has been dropped, hank greenberg's case against the new york fed dismissed today. he may appeal. but it has been dismissed. this one against the u.s. government which controlled 80% of aig following that bailout, this still exists. david: fascinating. liz: ben bernanke will testify? >> well, according to a federal judge he could try to stop it this time but he is private citizen, ben bernanke. he is no longer fed chairman. liz: charlie gasparino, breaking that news. he will have much more on foxbusiness.com and if he getting anything else he will break back in. >>> well my next guest warned about a dysfunctional financial market but he did it before th

a spokesman for geithner denied he threatened any retaliation against s&p, we'll find out what happens in court. the ceo of target calling on retailers to adopt chip-based credit card technology to better protect their customers following targets security breach, they pulled a plug on the program that used those chips for that reason in 2004. citing slow check out speeds, well, we're going to have more on that story, and be sure to listen to my financial report 3 times a day on the sal salem rao network coast-to-coast. >> obamacare web site, healthcare.gov is a disaster beyond doubt, but oregon's web site, oregon onceouted as a model of progressive health care reform is a story on to itself, john fund with the sorry tale next. [ male announcer ] e new new york is open. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to boldids. that's why n york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and ows more businesses... we're ope

a spokesman for geithner denied he threatened any retaliation against s&p, we'll find out what happens in court. the ceo of target calling on retailers to adopt chip-based credit card technology to better protect their customers following targets security breach, they pulled a plug on the program that used those chips for that reason in 2004. citing slow check out speeds, well, we're going to have more on that story, and be sure to listen to my financial report 3 times a day on the sal salem rao network coast-to-coast. >> obamacare web site, healthcare.gov is a disaster beyond doubt, but oregon's web site, oregon once touted as a model of progressive health care reform is a story on to itself, john fund with the sorry tale next. [ male announcer ] re's a question for you: is your tv powered by coal? natural gas? nuclear? or renewables like solar... and wind? let's find out. this is where america electricity comes from. a diversity of energy sources helps ensure t electricity we need is reliable. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. [ chicken caws ] [ male announcer ] when your favo

banks and whatever you just said, it was sheila bair, ben bernanke, it was hank paulson and tim geithners head of the new york fed, okay? they jammed in liquidity, and they guaranteed all the debt instruments, and they went through with maybe a dubious bank bailout for capital. guess whose watch that occurred under? and who gave a green light, jared bernstein? whether you agree with the package or not, whose watch was it under? >> that began under george w. bush, no question about it. >> case closed. >> and implemented by president obama. >> and implemented, and with the guarantees in liquidity -- if you buy into your story, some ought to give w some credit. >> agreed. >> steve moore, this is the most tepid economic recovery going back to 1947, and it was about 2.3% i think for 4 1/2 years, and one of the worst job recoveries, one of the worth job recoveries that we have had on record. you know what? at a comparable stage, ronald reagan's recovery was producing 337 thousand dollars job a metropolitan. over mr. obama's terms, it's 178,000, and the worst employment population on record. wh

debt the journal said geithner said the firm made an error and would be held accountable. "after the bell" starts right now. david: okay, we have some breaking news on pimco. pimco has had a tough year as you might note. this is, has $2 trillion under management. of course they made some bets that didn't pan out well in 2013. they're making bets on 2014 but they will have to do it without mohammed el-erien. resigned as ceo and co-cio of pimco. this is a very interesting development. sometimes he of course has been at odds with pimco's founders. for whatever reason, we don't know the reason but mohammed he will airy ran resigned as -- el airy yen resigned as pimco's ceo. sandra: we have all the action with chief investment officer who will tell us what stock he is recommending and also larry shover at the cme. larry start with you first. we have holiday shortened week. everybody is saying the next big thing for the markets is the federal reserve, what they're going to do, the pace of their bond-buying tapering. what is the biggest focus for trading for you as you stand in t

he larry summers, tim geithner, how are homeowners doing? still cechg hell. how are workers doing, still catching hell. poor people in inner cities rendered invisible with privatizers can't wait to go in and can't wait to create these market driven schools -- >> i hear what you're saying but is there anything positive about president obama? >> he gives some wonderful speeches. >> that it? >> he gives wonderful speeches. heacial whealth care we were waiting for. still leaves out 19 million fellow citizens. he said he would fight for the are personal option he didn't do so. >> he played lieutenant sulu. but he's out spoken for gay rights. george takei. >> i was living a double life. gay bars but all surreptitious, secret. on techknow, our scientists bring you a sneak-peak of the future, and take you behind the scenes at our evolving world. techknow - ideas, invention, life. on al jazeera america >> welcome back to "talk to al jazeera". this week we're replaying some of the more memorable moaments since our channel launched. in december the world lost one of its

geithner the praises of tax reform. we always admire that. going tohe said he was elease a plan and he really -- he released a very vague plan avoiding the details, avoiding hard part of tax reform. the reagan to what treasury did in 1984 and 1985 it was 1/100 of the effort. he was talking about eliminating loopholes but he was proposing new loopholes which were consistent with administration policy. is a situation where close everybody's loophole but mine. rid ofike we have to get the loopholes but we want to propose a couple new ones. that is just not a consistent position at all. when the in 2016, president is up for re-election, president but looking for the next president and somebody stands up and says if i'm going to reform taxes, what would your reaction be when you hear that? would be the same as the last election, which is, uh, politicians always oversell but sell more than the election. i would say show me the details. promise y did a lot of being the prior election and he never supplied the details. they would be very unattractive

>> so first of all, you're absolutely right that we had a very strong partnership, paulsen, geithner me. we are different people, different backgrounds, and i think we were actually quite complementary in various ways. and we certainly all recognized the seriousness of the situation and the need for cooperation among the treasure i, the fed and other -- treasury, the fed and other agencies, and that was the cover overwhelming imperative, to work together to try to solve the problem. there were, certainly, points where, you know, we were trying to address the financial condition at aig or some other politically very difficult problem, and there was a little bit of discussion about whether or not the fed or treasury should take the lead on that particular area. but in the end, paulsen in particular who during the heat of the 2008 crisis was the person who was most exposed to the political winds because as secretary of the treasury, he represented the administration, and he had to go to congress and so on. in the end, he always did what had to be done. and i think that was the reason th

geithner spokesman said the allegations that geithner threatened or even took any action to prompt retaliatorynment action to s&p is false. it doesn't ring completely true. i think fighter in was furious. they made a $2 trillion mistake in the numbers when they did that and the idea that geithner is somehow in cahoots then to bring a case like this is kind of impossible. maybe i'm wrong but i don't think so. >> why isn't he here? >> once you're a former you have to come? jack liu is here. >> i don't know that he isn't in town. >> just by chance happened to are in davos? >> there are a lot of people in davos, he works for warburg futures. >> yes the dealmaker. >> i did not know. >> are you serious? >> i had no idea. >> what have you been doing? >> she's a reporter, good stuff. >> when you come to davos one tourist destination is the highest altitude brewery in switzerland. used to be in all of europe but i found out there is one higher in italy. i did trek up the mountain. no one seems to think about driving the vans and look to the right and a rick ety guardrail. i was up a mountain to visit i

you know what effect champs soccer and you know another thing that's emerged recently is that tim geithner himself specifically threatened s. and p. when they threatened to downgrade the u.s. debt from aaa and sure enough they were investigated soon after they did downgrade the u.s. so that's in response to those people who say the u.s. would never care about the price of gold they don't care about that but obviously they do because it's command and control they're trying to control what are they trying to control the trying to control perception about their integrity and their ability to control things they're trying to control their sovereign bond price and believe that they're worth one hundred cents on the dollar. because if that's not true then price of gold should be at six seven thousand dollars an ounce and that's where we're going as it becomes apparent that they're lying about their balance sheets of deutsche bank and h.s.b.c. and j.p. morgan they don't have anywhere near the collateral they say they have they don't have anywhere near the assets they say they have neither does th

we saw tim geithner ago late last year. we saw general petraeus go to kkr.ast --well trod up well trod past. >> and what is he actually going to do? >> it is not totally clear. he is going to provide some level of counsel. doot of private equity firms end up doing business with the government. this particular firm does have some energy and airline investment in its portfolio. clearly those come under a lot of regulatory scrutiny. he cannot lobby directly within two years of leaving the senate. he will be providing advice and counsel to these people tend to lend their names to big fund- raising trips. people know who he is. certainly victory park will be counting on that. >> as far as you see victory park and how it stacks up versus it's competitors, what are you makeup of that firm and its place in the landscape? >> we spent a lot of time talking about blackstone, kkr. grabbede the names that the headlines. to invest in companies with about $250 million in revenue. this is what private equity does. even fuller brush going back to the fuller brush man of long

he spoke last week with joe lieberman, tim geithner -- in good company.ason kelly, speaking of good company, is here. "ins the author of cahoots." me. humes also here with -- he is the author of "the tycoons." genet joust her. can get going right out of the achowski can get going route out of the gate. >> yes. that is what we're talking about last week with lieberman joining this company at victory park capital. clearly they will play off his name. achowski is joining the u.s. by a group of carlyle. they began a flagship fund for carlyle. he will be doing media and telecom deals. he will be a partner at carlyle. had to deal have with governments. this is getting a member of the hedge fund community -- it's usually not in the u.s. usually overseas. what you think of this trend of public officials going private? >> i guess my knee-jerk reaction is in six to 12 months we will see headlines of somebody get .nvolved in something but quite honestly we have seen this back-and-forth for years now. back when i started in the markets, you had people going from the

. >> kerry geithner and laura mars neck, ladies, thanks so much. staying with banks, bank of new york mellon, charter one, citizen bank and inc. of america have joined forces with jpmorgan to help them avoid fraud. mr. foxx joins me from washington. thank you for your time. >> i appreciate you being here. >> how can banks avoid fraud? >> what we have seen is coming into 2014, just in the last quarter alone, we have seen about a 40% uptick in the number of banks utilizing technology tools to both cut costs and reduce the exposure to fraud. jpmorganke the fraud had to deal with. >> when my colleague was just talking about the blowback from $23 billion in legal fees, that is an astounding number. >> it is a number that almost is unfathomable. what we have seen as a real commitment this year, moving into 2014, of the number of banks beginning to adopt technology tools to help reduce their exposure to fraud. banks have been involved in some form or fashion or even just named in a fraud that pulls them into litigation in order to clear their name. we are

tom perkins, the cofounder of geithner perkins, wrote a letter to the wall street journal, comparing the war on the richest one percent in america to the persecution of jews in nazi germany. he joined me to apologize for that comparison, but not the message. perhaps the most talked about part of that conversation was his watch. take a listen. >> they got into a conversation about the idiocy of rolex watches. why does any man need a rolex watch? it is a symbol of terrible values, etc.. well, i think that is a little silly. this is not a rolex. rolexesbuy a sixpack of for this, but so what? >> he could have walked a few six packs over rolex-- of rolexes with that watch. joining me is an early-stage venture investor. i know you have been following this all week. what do you make of perkins' comments? anything, if possible, i find him more offensive than i did earlier in the week. it was offensive the first go around, and now it is cartoonish. he walked back some of his most egregious comments with respect to the direct comparison to the persecution of the jews in nazi germany, but he we

he told to miss the geithner former treasury secretary two years ago that too much emphasis on lendingon home ownership for minorities also the executive salaries were curtailed. these are two of the things that have conservatives worried. not scaling back but making them bigger. >> like i said, it is too soon to know what he will do but i do think one of the issues that people are focusing is access to credit we have seen ben bernanke bernanke, president of a balmy -- president obama in a romney saying it is too much red tape obviously it was too easy during the bubble but people say the pendulum has swung too far. gerri: do you agree with that? >> i think it is more nuanced. some borrowers if you can document easily you work at mcdonald's and can cobble together 5% you can get the fha relatively easily if you are self-employed but it is harder to document then you may have great credit but it may be harder to get a loan. what do you do? if you agree it is too hard what can they do about it? at the same time people in washington wants the rule reduced. gerri: i look what has happened

geithner's tax dodge, hiring eric holder, silence. the only thing president obama's apologized for is that people were dumb enough to believe him about obama care. and what if hiding disasters like obama care, benghazi, the doj, irs could save an election. the white house is better at covering up stuff than mabelene. obama has given us more fluff than a blooper reel, coddled more than the royal baby. obama never has to face his mission stakes, can which is why he makes so many. it's no mistake that they pivot to christie. another win for o who may never apologize. why should he? you want sorry? the sorriest people ever are the people who voted for him twice. >> how could you have come up with a bigger opening? that was unbelievable. >> i took a christie scandal and i turned it into an obama -- >> that was -- why didn't you put reverend wright on there. >> you should have. >> i didn't have time. >> i could have had bill ayers. it's too soft. >> hawaii. >> the cocaine. >> how about that plane that they sent over new york? >> wait a seco

kerry geithner joining us on the -- keri geiger joining us there.aising $2 billion to invest in distressed debt. our expert jason kelly is here. he is editing manager of bloomberg link. jason with me, as well as a special cohost this hour. first, this is even more money than kkr thought it would raise, right? >> that is right. i'm told it was double what they went down to raise. they went out for a billion dollars and they got $2 billion. it speaks to the importance of this type of fun. the more classic private equity funds are having a little harder time raising money. >> who will be running this new funding? any superstar names that we know? >> it is an interesting peek inside kkr. two thirtysomething guys running this group. we hate them for being so cobblers, but they are up and comers at kkr. one in london, one in -- we hate them for being so accomplished, but they are up and comers at kkr. one is in london and the other in san francisco. they are taking this firm in a different direction. >> double the money than they expected, so where will t

he put his hat in the ring when geithner stepped down , tim geithner stepped down in 2011.it didn't go to him, but went to jack lew. people close to fink, people know him on wall street, he is still making noises he wants the job. what he is eyeing is a hillary clinton presidency that puts him in that job. how do we know this? i can tell you i talked to a lot of people on wall street. we spent, julie, my producer around i spent the last two months researching this story, talking to people that know him. talking to people at blackrock, obviously going through this with blackrock. an extended story is on foxbusiness.com if you want to read it. it is on my twitter page. gives you all the highlights. what we're getting from people this guy still wants to be treasury secretary. interesting sort of move that he made late last year. he appointed cheryl mills, a confidant of hillary clinton, not exactly someone with a lot of financial experience. she was in the bill linton administration. chief of staff with bill clinton when she was secretary of state. appointed her on the blackro

they were threatened by tim geithner. >> let me expand that out, and hadleigh, don't forget, everybodyand everybody watching at home is being spied on by the government and that is not what we were told would happen when the law was written. >> what is sad about the story, i believe in free market and the free marketplace of ideas. some people are open minded, trying to decide who is right, what to believe, who is the truth? we get closer to the truth when we have everybody involved in the conversation. when we hear that groups are intimidated to even speak what they believe? >> kesha? >> i believe that people should be able to voice their views whether they're popular or not. most people don't know if i'm liberal or conservative, because i share both views. i feel no group should be targeted. but then again, no law should be broken, as well. >> amy, real quick, we have to go. >> i've been to a friend of abe events, you see these hollywood folks coming out of the woodwork, you're one too? you're one too? what the irs is asking for is basically a government black list, they want the nam

tim geithner blamed turbotax, a website, and he didn't report something like $100,000, yet he didn'tend time in jail. look, do i condone her behavior? no, but equal treatment for poor people and rich people under the law should be the case. >> what about the munchkins? that's the sad part. i feel so sad for them. >> one thing we talk about a lot on "the five," especially when you're on, is the danger of encouraging people to be single mothers. it's the quickest pathway to poverty. i think nadya suleman has mental issues for the reason she want today have the kids, so it's sad. it makes me want to limit the number of kids people should have. but we're not going do that. >> very chinese of you. >> well, 14. can we stop at 10? >> i didn't realize this, you know. i thought i knew this story, but then i was reading and it said 14, including a set of twins apart from the eight, and then the autistic child. i was thinking, 14 children? and she never has said who the dad is. which is another, to me, cultural marker of total failing and dysfunction. >> well, because it was really busy, juan,

last night i took four people, put hank paulson, sheila behr, tim geithner and ben bernanke and saidsis period which was september 2008, october, november, right in that period these four, working together, injecting liquidity and guaranteeing all the debt in our banking system prevented a terrible global catastrophe. what they did before then and what they have done afterwards i may not endorse. at that moment, those four people absolutely saved us from something that could have been worse than the great depression. jimmy, here's my point. i want to make a quick point, then you comment. there is a guy who never gets credit for giving them the green light to do it. his name is george w. bush. he said, go on ahead. it may not be free market but we need it to save the world. all right, jimmy. i'm adding bush tonight. i will probably get killed on the twitter universe. >> you're right. >> really? >> listen, people rarely get credit for preventing a bad thing from happening. you have to look at the counter factual. if bush does nothing, follow it is advice some people would have given wh

i will propose tonight ben bernanke, sheila bair, hank paulson and tim geithner, because at that pointwinter of '09, they worked together to add liquidity to the banking system and to guarantee money market funds and all forming of bank debt and deposits to stop the system from imploding. if our system had imploded, the world would have gone with it, and it would have been worse than the great depression. i don't agree with dodd/frank. i don't agree with the other qes. there's a lot of over-regulation. i'm just saying these four people at that moment gave us a much needed rescue mission. so i think their names have to go down. >>> we're going to have this for a while, but let me bring in jared bernstein and art laffer. your picks? >> i think fred smith and current people, jack welch, they're very much in that. my all-time favorite is george shultz, the most important person in the last century, but i do not think those that you picked were really that good. i think we should have done nothing and the economy would be far better today. >> by the way, if you're going to pick george shult