and i guess i would direct it to the inspector general mr. o'carroll, and i would from your work that you've done would like to hear from you, miss davis, why isn't this a bigger priority? you've been working on these issues for years and coming to congress, and this is a huge issue. >> agreed senator. we're in a unique position as the ssa oig on this thing, we represent the council of inspector generals as liaison of o omb on this thing, there has been a lot more emphasis on identifying improper payments curbing the improper payments. probably the biggest issue is the do not pay list making all the government agencies compare this information so that as an example, opm won't be sending out a salary check to somebody another agency thinks is deceased. i guess the only other one i kind of ask for some help on, and i mention this before on another hearing is that data matching between agencies is handicapped in so many different ways, one agency is not allowed to provide its data because the computer matching act cannot share its data that's probably the

so what i would like to ask inspector general o'carroll, if you would please -- what i'll do is read this quote that came from the management at ssa and this was in response to the ig's findings and recommendations. the recommendations that create a significant manual and labor intensive workload and provide no benefit to the administration of our programs end quote. do you feel and i think we've talked about this. i heard some mention of this. but do you feel an accurate and reliable death master file is the responsibility of the ssa? >> the easy answer on that is yes that i think that any data ssa is providing to the government, the public has to be accurate if the and the that's pretty much the reason we identified the 15 million is because when anybody knows we're -- that's what this group was, a large outlier. as i said before there's so many other different benefits in the states and in the government plus what we're looking at with fe voter registration and driver's licenses and everything else all based on this thing. >> thank you. i would agree. and i think that is a good st

. >> pelley: patrick o'carroll is the social security administration's inspector general. ffice investigates how the death master file is used and abused. >> o'carroll: right now, the death master file has in it about 86 million records in it and it gets about two million records every year from the states. and we're probably, as with everything else, as strong as the weakest link, in terms that some states are reporting electronically have very good data. and then with other states, it's done on a more haphazard level. so again, there's going to be some falling through the cracks there. >> pelley: but o'carroll told us that live people "falling through the cracks" isn't what keeps him up at night. the much more costly problem is in the millions of americans who do die and are not recorded. your office found that social security had no death data for six and a half million people over the age of 111. do you really believe that there are six and a half million people over the age of 111 in this country? >> o'carroll: no, and in fact, that's why we did the audit on it. what w

the inspector general mr. o'carroll. i would love to hear why this isn't a bigger priority. this is a huge issue. >> agreed. we are in a unique a unique position. we represent the council of inspector general's as liaison. there has been a lot more emphasis on identifying improper payments, curbing improper payments. making all of the government agencies compare this information. they won't be sending out a salary check. the only other one data matching between agencies is handicapped in so many different ways. one person on benefit for one agency and should not be for another. match data to find people also getting disability benefits. but in the know that they have improved. it is that type of data matching that would be extremely useful. >> my time is up. >> it is a lot change and there is a bill out there that is included. >> if you are ready. >> thank you. thank you for your testimony. i do appreciate it. i don't think anyone disagrees. i would like to ask if you would please my we will read this quote that came from the management. this was in response to their findings

o'carroll jr. the inspector general for the social security since 2004 and also has 26 years of service for the united states secret service. >> good afternoon chairman johnson and ranking member carper and members. thank you for the opportunity. my office investigatives social security misused. but one stands out. a man opened two accounts for people born in 1886 and 1893. we can safely assume these people who today would be 129 and 122 years of age are deceased. however, according to ssa data base of social security number holders these people are alive. they are living in the sense that ssa does not have dates of death for either person or number holder records. our auditors followed up and found these two records were anything but unique. we recently recorded that 6.5 million people whose social security records indicate they are over 112 years old do not have a data death on the social number record. without a date of death on the ssa data base these people do not appear on the agency death master file. i should note that none of the aged number holders are improperly receiving social security be

brune: i think our inspector general might be in better position to answer. mr. o'carroll: one of the ways we're finding fraudsters are doing it is they will go to a state record listing all the deceased people in it and then they will take a look at one of the death master files and see if a person is alive in one record and dead in the other record on it. what they will do is claim to be that person and then go after their benefits. that is one method of it. as we know in other cases on it they will adopt the name and the information of the person and file for credit on it and default. senator johnson: why don't we just purging the death master file from anybody over a certain age? mr. brune: let me say the records in the death master file we procure largely from the states. state bureaus of vital statistics, the individual family members dock task force. -- doctors. it has been in existence since we began over 80 years ago. the recordkeeping processes as you might imagine have involved over 80 years. our current program policy requires evidence of death. the risk in jus