geoffrey thomas, you're there in perth. what k you tell us? richard and i are going back and forth about the significance of this particular news conference. >> reporter: look, i agree with richard on this, if it had just been the senator, the minister of defense, it would probably be domestic political. however, angus houston joining him, it may add a little bit of credibility to it or a little bit more weight to what we're going to hear. there might be a little bit more significance. but as richard says, if angus' boss is going to be there, they be he should be there as well. i'm not actually that hopeful that we're going to get something major out of it, was you never know. because this is such a dynamic search that information is coming through all the time and it may well be that what they're going to announce will be superseded by something that comes through at the last minute. >> at the very least, i would expect him to take questions as he has been very transparent with the media thus far. we may get something, if not out of a direct

geoffrey thomas, you're there in perth. what k you tell us? richard and i are going back and forth about the significance of this particular news conference. >> reporter: look, i agree with richard on this, if it had just been the senator, the minister of defense, it would probably be domestic political. however, angus houston joining him, it may add a little bit of credibility to it or a little bit more weight to what err wwe going to hear. there might be a little bit more significance. but as richard says, if angus' boss is going to be there, they be he should be there as well. i'm not actually that hopeful that we're going to get something major out of it, was you never know. because this is such a dynamic search that information is coming through all the time and it may well be that what they're going to announce will be superseded by something that comes through at the last minute. >> at the very least, i would expect him to take questions as he has been very transparent with the media thus far. we may get something, if not out of a direc

we will get reaction from geoffrey thomas, the editor in chief of airline ratings.com. richard quest also with me here on the set in new york. geoffrey, we saw martin demonstrate the flight 370 may have flown as low as 4,000 feet. what would make a plane descent or drop to that level? >> it is an interesting question, don. it had been speculated when the information was first rumored a few weeks ago out of malaysia, they might have been terrain hugging to avoid radar. it seems to support the theory that this was a very deliberate action combined with the altitude changes that we had known about and also the information which cnn got a few days ago that the airplane had flown completely around indonesia. it all seems to paint a picture of trying to avoid primary military radar. >> richard, what more do we know about the altitude drop and why the info is coming out now. remember we heard the drop to 12,000 feet. >> we had numerous altitude reports. the first said it was up to 45 and then down to 2 3. then one at 12,000 and that wasn't for radar but to avoid traffic and now

arthur rosenberg and geoffrey thomas editor and chief of airlineratings.com. this is the original group we assembled eight weeks ago and you are back here with us. thank you for joining us. we will start with you, jim. some families have been questioning whether searchers are looking in the right place. you share their skepticism, don't you? tell me why you think they may need to go back to the drawing board, jim. >> i never got assurance there was a strong scientific reason for taking the approach we are taking. i don't know what was the thinking involved when the decision was let's go south and ignore anything to the north. i don't think the idea of ignoring any part of a search like this because we don't know very much. it's one of these things that came up last week when someone made the statement we don't know anything. we suppose a lot. we have a lot of assumptions. we need to know something. i'm with the family on that. tell me something i can count on to be real. >> one of the family members on this show raised that possibility last night. david, do th

that's one i'm not able to answer, sorry. >> all right, geoffrey thomas?ossible that they will have that information, the digital flight data recorder, yes. >> okay. so they will have that. can a -- here's another question. this one is from popcorn. it says, "can a whale or a dolphin recreate or make a similar clicking, pinging noise as the black box?" that one is perfect for paul. >> well, i don't think so, unless it's a very well-trained mammal, who has good laboratory technique. we can measure to ten thousandths of a second on the repetition rate. and we expect that not to vary. >> and we talked about certain signatures, because you have certain repetition rates and certain signals and all of that. and some aquatic life or ocean life, an animal or mammal would have to do the same sort of thing in order to repeat that and that's highly, highly unlikely. let's move on now. leyla says, "where exactly are each of the black boxes located on the plane?" jim tilmon? >> well, there are a number of places they generally put them. generally, most airplanes will h

geoffrey thomas is with us. mary schiavo is an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. ocean explorer, tim taylor. jeff wise. jim tilmotilmon. the batteries may already be dead. do you believe the data recorders will ever be found? >> if the pinger is dead and there's no debris on the surface and we're convinced it's along this southern arm, then what we're really facing is we would have to go down and try to locate this thing with side scan sonar, which is equivalent of riding around the continental united states on a horse looking for this thing. it's getting extremely slow process. if you deployed multiple underwater robots, this could take decades. >> tim taylor, how does a search plan change, if nothing is found within the next few days? >> well, they're going to have to take a long range look at this and really evaluate if they proceed. jeff said it's going to take a long time. that equates to money. i have one quick thing. sound has a different propensity, low frequency sound underwater, there's a channel from 2,000 to 4,000 feet that allows sound to travel great

i want to bring in geoffrey thomas. he answered my question to you when i said, is this an indication that the search efforts are ramping up, and it certainly appears that they are. >> look, indeed. another frigate from malaysia and australian ship, as well. and hms echo can also track for those underwater beacons, as well. so indeed, there is more assets coming. we know there are more wedge tile aircraft from the australian air force coming across to help coordinate the search. so indeed, as the prime minister of australia has said, as the air marshal angus houston has said, we're in here for the long haul. and they're very confident that if it can be found, the team that's now assembled can find it. >> he said they're searching a vast area and it will take some time. geoffrey, stay with me. when we come back, i want to get to my team of experts to react to tonight's press conference. they are out there tonight looking for pings from the black box. we'll be right back right after a short break. [ male announcer ] what

geoffrey thomas is with us. mary schiavo is an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. ocean explorer, tim taylor. jeff wise. jim tilmon. the batteries may already be dead. do you believe the data recorders will ever be found? >> if the pinger is dead and there's no debris on the surface and we're convinced it's along this southern arm, then what we're really facing is we would have to go down and try to locate this thing with side scan sonar, which is equivalent of riding around the continental united states on a horse looking for this thing. it's getting extremely slow process. if you deployed multiple underwater robots, this could take decades. >> tim taylor, how does a search plan change, if nothing is found within the next few days? >> well, they're going to have to take a long range look at this and really evaluate if they proceed. jeff said it's going to take a long time. that equates to money. i have one quick thing. sound has a different propensity, low frequency sound underwater, there's a channel from 2,000 to 4,000 feet that allows sound to travel great dist

les abend, aviation analyst and triple seven pilot and aviation attorney arthur rosenberg and geoffrey thomas editor in chief of airlineratings.com. let's go to geoffrey first. what did you make of the interview? did the prime minister have a good explanation of how they acted in the immediate after math of the disappearance? >> first of all, great interview that richard was able to get. the malaysian prime minister has given us more clarity but it's not crystal clear. some of the answers were still left question marks. as far as the way they reacted afterwards he did concede they didn't handle it as well as they could but at the same time he does say, which is true, this disappearance is unprecedented and many, many countries would have been challenged by it. certainly we have more clarity from them about what is going to happen in the next week or so. >> one of the most important pieces of the interview, i thought, is the prime minister saying that military radar tracked an aircraft. they weren't sure that it was flight 370 but it wasn't deemed to be hostile. what do you make of the prime m

and geoffrey thomas, airline and chief of airlines.com. and we are expecting the results of the oil sample sometime soon. what is the status of that? >> yes, don, we are in fact -- the oil came ashore and delivered down to perth yesterday. we understand it is a 24-hour period for analysis. the analysis we understand is a 24-hour period. we hope today, by 1:02 -- 12 midnight that they will learn if it is hydraulic oil or something thrown by a passing ship. but there seems to be a high level of confidence that this was not the usual marine oil. so there seems to be a level of confidence that this might be the first piece of debris, if you like, we find from flight 370. >> but i want to get your thoughts on this, geoffrey. underwater recovery expert told us i think essentially they have found the wreckage site. and he has been on this show with us before. you have spoken with him. we all have. why are he and so many other officials so confident about this? >> well, david is probably one of the most respected wreck hunters in the world, along

back to perth with geoffrey thomas, and robert the editor of "flying magazine." richard quest is back with me of course back with me here in new york. geoffrey, to you first, you see some parallels between what is happening right now with mh-370 and the successful search for air france 447. explain that to us. >> yes, indeed, don. i mean with the search for 447, when they finally triangulated where they believed the wreckage was, they put down a bluefin-21 to have a look. it took them actually eight days, even though they knew virtually precisely where the airplane was, it still took them eight days to find it. the wreckage on the bottom was confined to a very small area, as well, so we're only into day 4, 4 1/2 into this search on the bottom. we have a long ways to go yet before we sort of really completed a thorough search of the area where the pings have come from. don't forget, we have had four very strong pings. we had two fade out pings. according to one of the greatest wreck hunters of the world, david burns, he says we've found it. he's very, very confiden

. >> geoffrey thomas in perth. you bring new information every evening. you have information on what may happen when the bluefin finishes searching the last search area. what can you tell us of how the underwater search will proceed. >> we have a sense of what they are going to do after the last 20% is possibly go to the area where the first ping was heard, that's ping number one. i don't think they will go to ping three and four. they will go possibly to number one and do the same thing again there. do a ten-kilometer, six-mile radius of that. also there's serious discussion about the orion, towed side scan sonar device which does everything in realtime. gives greater flexibility and can go to a much greatest depth, too. one of the issues is the area they are searching at the moment is like a plateau, 4.5 thousand meters deep and then it drops to 6,000 miles deep. they need to get more or better assets if the search is to be widened considerably. >> let's talk about the big picture or the long haul so to speak, mary. we know malaysian and australian auth

geoffrey thomas, you're in perth, australia, and it's highly unusual. i'm not sure that there's ever been a case where they've heard pings. they think there are pings coming from these black boxes but they still haven't found any wreckage whatsoever. what are the investigators there in australia telling you about that? >> well, there's a couple of factors. the tropical cyclone, jillian, hurricane, if you like, in the southern hemisphere, tropical cyclone, went through this area 3, 3 1/2 weeks ago, 190 mile an hour winds. it's an extraordinary twist of fate. it came from the north over the search area where the pingers are. then turned west. now, one of the things is it would have moved the debris to the west. but also, it would have pummeled that debris and broken it up and possibly sunk it as well. so, and of course, we are looking five weeks now after this airplane disappeared. so, you know, normally we find debris in the water. a few days after an air crash. but this is five weeks later. but on the subject of the oil, the other factor here is, this c

i want to bring in geoffrey thomas who joins us from perth. same question to you, the malaysian prime minister arriving in perth later today. what's the significance? >> reporter: good evening, don. look, indeed there is significance here, absolutely. it's more confirmation, if you like, that we are looking in the right area, with the malaysian prime minister coming down. we've also had the setting up of the joint communication center here in perth. and we also have more assets arriving, more aircraft, more ships. all this adds to the momentum that -- of the search and also confirmation that we are looking in the right spot. >> they're sending an air traffic control plane in the area to make sure there are no accidents, geoffrey? >> reporter: yes, indeed. the australian air force has flown in, in fact three wedge tile aircraft, the boeing 737 with the radar capabilities. it's usually used as a spy plane, like your awacs aircraft. yes, this is going to be a communications center and air traffic control center to ensure that separation is mainta

. >> so geoffrey thomas, in perth, why is there this big delay, this big delay.see why, because, as the audio expert is saying, the -- all the differences made, the important part is in the preplanning and that's what they were trying to get together in the initial stages of looking for these pings. >> no doubt. >> looking, the example that's been shown than extraordinary. and we're all getting some very interesting lessons in oceanographers and acoustic sounds. what we're seeing at the moment in this very small search area, not the large one but the very confined one, we're seeing the ocean shield go through with the pinger -- towed pinger locator. it does a sweep through and then exit the search area and then hms echo comes in behind it and it's doing methodical echo sounding search on the bottom as well. i think they're putting a lot of hope in the fact that -- first of all, getting some more pings, obviously. but that hope is fading fast. they're also hope that "echo" will pick up something on the bottom or if nothing else, eliminate an area where there was n

geoffrey thomas is joining us once again. he's editor in chief of airlineratings.com. what are you hearing, geoffrey, if anything, about re-examining the hard drives that the fbi was looking at for the pilot and the co-pilot? the fact that now the acting transport minister in malaysia saying the passengers have not been cleared necessarily. even though the inspector swr o general of malaysian police force the other day said they had been cleared. what's going on based on the information you're getting? >> it's very interesting, wolf. they've investigated the passengers twice and the crew twiced. they've twice been cleared and now they're re-examining it. i guess the bottom line here, until as has been said, until we get something concrete, everybody probably still remains under suspicion because, you know, when it comes to things like, say, hypothetically a suicide-type situation, in many, many cases, nobody knows that situation's evolving with that particular person until it actually happened. so, i mean, and not that we're suggesting that at all, but that's just one s

. >> geoffrey thomas, airlineratin airlineratings.com. thank you so much.eered like so many things, certified for 30 days, those batteries but maybe they can lost 40 days. >> excellent research. >>> more live coverage in the breaking developments right after the break. >>> this is cnn breaking news. >> the breaking news this morning, new signals detected in the search for missing malaysian airlines flight 370. overnight, investigators revealing two new transmissions heard from manmade devices they believe could be the vanished jetliner's black boxes. now the batteries on those black boxes could go dead any day. really any minute now. so this morning, the search is intensifying as crews scour the ocean hoping to pick up more clues on where the plane's wreckage could be. we have a team of reporters covering every angle of this story this morning. >> happening right now. an example hero accused of murder on the witness stand for a third emotional day. can oscar pistorius convince this judge he didn't mean to kill his model girlfriend? we're live with the lates

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i'll bring in geoffrey thomas in perth, australia, for a moment. u this question every day because you're so well plugged in over there, geoffrey. what are you hearing? the latest you're hearing about the underwater search. that seems to be wrapping up now. 90% of the area has been reviewed. they found absolutely nothing so far in the air search. what's the latest you're getting? >> well, on the underwater search, the tough mission, we understand, is now complete, not confirmed. there may be another dive of the bluefin-21 in this particular area where the pinger number two was. my understanding is that the pinger one, which is about six miles to the north of the second ping, is an area that they're very interested in as well, so we may see the ocean shield relocate there. but then i think it is going to be widened with greater assets like the towed orion side scan sonar. as far as the air search is concerned, the commercial element wound up about a week ago. that was where the chartering corporate jets with, to go out there. the military part is sti

geoffrey thomas, thanks to you, ken christianson, peter goelz.tory coming up later. >>> breaking news on the fate of a young american man who's in custody in north korea. u.s. officials are closely monitoring the situation. let's bring in foreign affairs reporter elise labott. she has the latest information. what are you learning? >> wolf, he was with a tour group when detained and told he was existing some pretty strange behavior as he went willingly into the hands of the north koreans. the 24-year-old american was picked up by north korea for his, quote, rash behavior. north korean state media didn't release a picture but identified him as miller matthew todd. they sea he tore up his visa and promised to seek asylum as he passed through customs. u.s. officials told cnn they learned about his detention days ago but are not confirming it publicly. >> we are of course aware of the reports that a u.s. citizen was detained in north korea. >> reporter: the news of the detention seems timed to president obama's visit to south korea, part of a campaign

also joining us is geoffrey thomas. i want to get to mary quickly.e may not have to put this plane back together. i've asked you this question before and you've answered it. if the data recorders are found and the information is intact, which you think it will be once they are found, the plane, they won't want to reassemble this airplane. >> right. that's correct. and in most crash investigations they do not reassemble the plane. obviously they sift through the wreckage looking for important clues and major component to failure, et cetera. but if the black boxes have the answer and they can glean what happened from them, then they won't put the plane back together. it's just a very expensive proposition and it's rare that they do that, actually. >> yeah. so, geoffrey, they have been looking for the black backes and so far they haven't found them. fit comes down to relying on the debris, are they up to the task if they have to piece together the wreckage? >> look, don, i really do believe they are. australia's aviation transportation safety bureau is

and geoffrey thomas, managing director of airline ratings.com. what do you know about this? >> well, before we get -- if we may, here we have the -- >> i know, but first answer the question, and then we'll get to that. because they're waiting to confirm that. what do you know about this? >> what i know about it is that we've known for a long time that the plane went north then turned to a u-turn, then went down into the strait of malacca, out to the west, and then across down into the indian ocean. you're watching it here. now we believe it's been confirmed or at least sources say that turn at the top was designed to in some shape avoid crossing malaysian airspace, at least crossing the land mass. it probably would have been caught on radar, but they do believe that that's why it was done. >> go ahead. >> yeah, i mean, just following from what richard is saying, primary radar goes out to about 125 miles around that. and the point here is that there is no definitive line which you cross, which goes from being traced on a radar scope to suddenly disappearing off a radar scope.

and aviation writer geoffrey thomas.avid, the bluefin so far yielded no information about the plane, what we know about it in the last bit still being analyzed. searchers said the last dive that took about nine hours was particularly successful. does that tell you anything? >> just that they're getting better at what they do. i mean, this team is a well qualified team. they're getting the vehicle tuned to work at those depth thethe -- getting the vehicle out and more power. and just the peak performance. >> and david, they're suggesting they may have to expand the search area beyond where they heard their pings. i mean, it looks along the arc where they think the plane may have actually gone. but if that is the case it seems like we're in for a very long haul. >> if we're talking about can't matthews talked early on about tactical surveying going right on at the bull's eye. if they're talking about wider areas, they will have to talk more about the vehicles. don't know how they will do that. >> geoffrey, everybody involv

i want to bring in another aviation analyst, geoffrey thomas who's joining us from perth, australia, right now. he's the editor in chief of airlineratings.com. what are you hearing over there in perth? you're there where the staging area is. what's the latest on this entire investigation? specifically the notion that the plane at one point may have gone down to 4,000 or 5,000 feet in altitude? >> yes, wolf. those detail about the change in altitude, we've known about that here for about three weeks. this was -- this came out of malaysia -- some of the malaysian military failure early on. again, off the record. now we're getting something more on the record. and as your panelists have just suggested, the variations in what we're getting out of malaysia has not been good. it has been inconsistent. it has been contradictory. and that's led to a lot of confusion in the reporting and more to the point, a lot of confusion in the analysis of exactly what's happened with this airplane. my sources tell me that there were multiple changes in flight path, direction, and there were a number of c

je geoffrey thomas, appreciate the clarification. what has become of the high-tech british nuke sub reported to be in the area. mr. thomas? >> that's a great question, don. absolutely brilliant question. to which i have no answer. i've asked many times here, on the record, off the record and i'm simply told you will never know. it's top secret. so you know one has to assume that it is playing a very important role in this search. exactly what that capability is, apparently we're not going to be told. >> all right. stick with me, everybody. when we come back, a closer look at one thing that has been revealed by the search. all of the trash floating around in the world's oceans and the negative impact it may have. honestly, i'm pouring everything i have into this place. that's why i got a new windows 2 in 1. it has exactly what i need for half of what i thought i'd pay. and i don't need to be online for it to work. it runs office, so i can do schedules and budgets and even menu changes. but it's fun, too -- with touch, and tons of grea

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geoffrey, thomas, thanks very much. to you as well. >>> another major story we're working here in "the situation room" right now. sources telling cnn saudi arabia is conducting dna tests on a body that could be that of the notorious militant known as the bombmaker, the man behind some of al qaeda's most disturbing explosives. was ibrahim al nasiri among dozens of militants in yemen? i spoke about that earlier today with the chairman of the house intelligence committee, congressman mike rogers. >> i think it's prudent to be cautious. we'll know the right answer, if this is, in fact, al seri, this is a big moment in disrupting al qaeda in the arabian peninsula operations of which we know specifically are targeted to the united states. >> now, without knowing whether or not he was killed, can you at least confirm he was targeted? >> well, i can't talk about a specific operation, but i can tell you that the bombmaker has been someone of interest for our counterterrorism efforts and has been on the high-priority list to take