still with me, kevin giddis, george goncalves, and luke hickmore., i spent this week and caught up with pimco and we talked about how they turned cautious and defensive and one of their funds. my question, i hear this a lot about turning cautious and defensive but i try to reconcile that with what has done really well in fixed income. there is nothing cautious or defensive about that. how do you make sense of it? kevin: whatever they say about cautious and defensive is not necessarily what is happening in the current market, especially on the long end of the curve, where investors are willing to take a lot more credit risk. it has been a yield play for the last the two years. you offer me 25% for two years in turkey, i will probably take them. jonathan: maybe that is the reason you want to get cautious and defensive. convertibles are doing really well at this year. triple c is doing pretty well this year relative to what investment grade has done. it is now the time to get defensive and to go elsewhere and park some money in cash. luke: yeah, but sl