george magnus.re you surprised? the debate was acrimonious and high-end motion. >> yes. it's normal, by the way, because it is something which is extremely -- it's about the future, it's about what will happen to the eu and also to the u.k. it was normal. i was a bit surprised by how nar row were they thinking of the people in favor of brexit. i don't want to be disrespectful, but they had the feeling that it was much more victorynostalgia of the that doesn't exist anymore, rather than by the future of the new world. it's not something which is so british. in fact, when you look at the british people, what the u.k. has been able to do, it's just fantastic. andng from the war rebuilding the country, and becoming a very open part of the eu and of the world. some surprised to see that formerful mps and chancellor' could defend the idea of leaving europe. francine: george, when you look at the figures -- what's difficult is that we don't know with certainty what the u.k. would look like. is there nothin