thinks leo george packer author of "the unwinding." [applause] we also think our audience here on the radio in internet he will autograph the books for sale in the lab the. this is the meeting from the commonwealth club the place we were in the know, this meeting is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] >> when did the wes slave trade start? >>guest: the u.s. was involved in this the track on ashley slave trade from the moment we began as a colony of britain's. indeed one of the interesting thing is is in the constitutional convention was a compromise between the states that had slaves and those that did it the constitution said the federal congress could not take any action until 18 '08 against the slave trade. the first moment it could president jefferson sent legislation to congress that band participation of the slave trade by the u.s. ships and persons and congress passed that we provided the slave trade which is a long time of course, slavery ended but the issues were seen as different even southerners were in support of beginning

please don't hold that against him as we will come george packer. [applause] >> thanks, dead. it was last year when the assassins gate came out so it's wonderful to be back at the commonwealth club in a special welcome to my extended family here in the front rows. when i'm asked where did this book come from and away the answer is it came from iraq oddly enough even though this is a book very much focused on america. when i was covering iraq and the war for "the new yorker", my initial sense of why everything was in floating there was to blame individual leaders and we know who they are and they were to blame. there were gross failures on the port -- part of almost everyone in the highest positions of responsibility but over time iraq came to see more and more like a failure of american institutions. no matter how much money and how much effort and even how much talent and goodwill we threw at that country, it all seemed to avail nothing and that was partly because it was an impossible job but also because the institutions that were responsible from the highest government agen

this is george packer staff writer for "the new yorker".social shifts he says are harming the fabric of america was in some ways. one of our audience you mentioned you grew up in a good school system. that has remained relatively impact. >> there has been repeal about repealing prop 13 or modifying prop 13 but in some ways in california essentially the parents have stepped in and filled the void. do you see that changing? >> last last year did in california passed an initiative to raise taxes for funding public schools? you know i almost put that into the 2012 mash-up because it seemed like the perfect look and to 1978 in prop 15. after this long and really misguided foray into low tax small government let a thousand flowers bloom and wilt, we have begun to wake up to the fact that you just can't be a successful society and economy without responsibilities to match your rights. so, that may be a sign that there is a new sobriety and a new maturity about the public. every time i see it taking a step that way i see apple doing everything it c

. >> writing in "the new yorker," george packer presents the difficult case for military interventionorld. nearly two-thirds of americans don't think the united states should involve itself in solving foreign conflicts, packer writes. for better or forworse, we've decided someone else should do this. that is the legacy of these past 12 years. this morning, just hours after calling on congress to authorize use of force, both as a means and possibly an end to the diplomatic process, the president was frank about his distaste for war and the limits of military might. >> let us have the wisdom to know that while force is at times necessary, force alone cannot build the world we seek. so we recommit to the partnerships and progress that builds mutual respect and deepens trust and allows more people to live in dignity, prosperity, and freedom. >> joining me now is washington bureau chief for "time" magazine michael share and also joining me from washington is the host of msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews. chris, i'd like to go to you first. before we get into the nitty gritty of the presid