george packer has said that evan osnos gives us 21st-century china the way the best journalists gave us the gilded age. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. george was rather complimentary, wasn't he? >> he knows the gilded age. the first one and the one we are going through now so i appreciate the comment. >> why's it hard to define the ambition of china? >> it operates on two levels. you have the national ambition, the one we see every day over here. it is the one pushing china out into the south and east china sea. it is a remarkable thing to see. the one that is harder to see, the one you see on the ground when you live in china and talk to people is the ambition in their personal lives and private lives and their families which is to transform themselves to this economic metamorphosis. >> you have been interested in this for a while. the individual life. >> that's right. that is what surprised me when i got there. everything i learned about china and studied was about the collective experience. the confucian society, a socialist country. i got there and found that

george packer has said evan osnos gives us 21st century china the way best american journalists gave us "the guilded age." pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> thanks. >> charlie: george was rather cornecomplimentary, wasn't he? >> well, he knows the guilded age. >> charlie: why is it hard to define the ambition of china? >> it operates on two levels. you have the national ambition that's clear to us, the one we see here. >> charlie: and talk about. and talk about, the one pushing china out into the south china and the east china sea. that's remarkable to see. the one that's harder to see when you live on the ground and talk to people in china is their ambition in their personal and private lives and their families which is to transform themselves through this economic metamorphosis that the country is going through. >> charlie: you have been interested in the individual life for a while since you got to china. >> that's right. that surprised mow when i got there. everything i always studied was about the collective experience. it's a confucius society, a socialist coun

industry is undergoing a kind of civil war right now you see it reflected in michael kinsley and george packer from the new yorker attacking attacking glenn greenwald in trying to somehow separate him from what they can see. to be a legitimate journalist and so you see this argument going on michael kinsley saying that that government should decide what get what's kept publish what gets published and what doesn't which is a contravention of the tradition of journalism in this country so i think there is kind of a battle going on and i think it's far as the boardroom is concerned that's a whole other fascinating story because we also have the boardrooms of google and the other large data companies who have cooperated with the n.s.a. at times with it at other times so i wonder to what extent given the intro lacking nature of the director it's of so many large corporations i just wonder to what extent that corporate america may be deciding that it it's time to worry about reputation and profits and a little bit less about what the government wants you to say or not say these companies are losing