new york governors nelson rockefeller to george pataki, who was your contemporary when you were governor of new jersey, were all pro-choice. the roe decision itself was a 7-2 decision, which included five justices who were appointed by republican presidents. what has happened to that tradition in the republican party? >> money and the fact that we stopped voting in primaries in the way that we should, "we" being everybody, but particularly republicans, obviously. when you only have a 10% turnout, and that's what the average has been until recently -- 10% turnout of eligible voters in the primaries, that means you have the most partisan, and they tend to be a little bit on the extremes. and for a republican running in some of these districts, they have to worry. they don't worry about the general election because the way the districts are drawn, they just worry about the primary. and that's becoming even more true now in -- in the states in general elections. and i'm a supporter of ranked-choice voting. i think that's a way to force candidates to talk to everybody. that's where we've lost