in the room with me is thomas george tobin, is that correct?> correct. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> she was scalped, and there was no blood. >> okay. >> so pretty much we knew then the heart wasn't beating. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the -- >> of the arm. >> he swallowed it. >> so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, he is basically suggesting that swimming with orcas is dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you enter the water or their environment. >> the crux of the case, stay out of the proximity of the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the industry. this was national news. >> sea world whale performances may never be the same. >> right now the theme park is arguing in court to keep the whales in the water. >> these are wild animals and unpredictable because we don't speak whale. we don't spring whale, tiger, a we don't speak monkey. >> tempers flared whe

in the room with me is thomas george tobin is that correct? >> correct. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> she was scalped and there was no blood. >> okay. >> so pretty much we knew then the heart wasn't beating. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go? >> he didn't. >> he never let go -- >> of the arm. >> he swallowed it. >> so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, he is basically suggesting with orcas is dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you enter the water or their environment. >> the crux of the case, stay out of the proximity of the animals ask you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the industry. this was national news. >> sea world whale performances may never be the same. >> they want to keep whale trainers in the water, something osha says is dangerous. >> these are wild animals and unpredictable because we don't speak whale. we don't spring whale, tiger, a monkey. >> tempers flared when osha's attorneys suggested sea

in the room with me is thomas george tobin, is that correct?> correct. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> that's part of it. she was scalped and there was no blood. >> okay. >> so pretty much we knew then the heart wasn't beating. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the -- >> of the arm. >> he swallowed it. >> so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, he is basically suggesting that swimming with orcas is dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you enter the water or their environment. >> the crux of the case, stay out of the proximity of the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the industry. this was national news. >> sea world whale performances may never be the same. >> right now the theme park is arguing in court to keep the whale trainers in the water. it's something osha says is dangerous. >> these are wild animals and unpredictable because we don't speak whale. we don't sp

in the room with me right now is thomas george tobin, is that correct?rrect. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> the last part of it, she was scalped. and there was no blood. so pretty much, we knew then that the heart was beating. >> once they were able to pull that away, how did he let go of it. >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the arm? >> swal yoed it. >> he swallowed it? so the arm is nowhere -- >> yes. >> black fish goes back decade to humans trapping killer whales for captivity. >> it was an exciting thing to do until everybody wanted to do it. >> what were they telling you you would do? >> capture orcas. >> they had aircraft, spotters, speed boats, bombs they were throwing in the water. they were lighting their bombs with acetylene torches in their boats and herding whales into coves. but the orcas had been caught before and they knew what was going on. they knew their young ones would be taken from them. so the adults without young went east into cul-de-sac. and the boats followed them, thinking they were all going

the time is 4:16 in a room with me right now is townus george tobin, is that correct?see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> she was scalped and there was no blood. so pretty much we knew then that [ inaudible ]. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go of her? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the arm? >> he swallowed it. >> he swallowed it. so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, osha is suggesting that swimming with orcas is inherently dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you come into their environment. >> what's the crux of the osha case? >> stay out of proximity with the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the whole industry. this was national headline news. >> seaworld's whale performances may never be the same. >> right now theme park is arguing in court to keep whale trainers in the water, something osha says is extremely dangerous. >> these are wild animals and they are unpredictable because we don't speak whale, tiger, monkey. >> and tempers

in the room with me is thomas george tobin, is that correct?did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> she was scalped, and there was no blood. >> okay. >> so pretty much we knew then the heart wasn't beating. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the -- >> of the arm. >> he swallowed it. >> so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, he is basically suggesting that swimming with orcas is dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you enter the water or their environment. >> the crux of the case, stay out of the proximity of the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the industry. this was national news. >> sea world whale performances may never be the same. >> right now the theme park is arguing in court to keep the whales in the water. >> these are wild animals and unpredictable because we don't speak whale. we don't spring whale, tiger, a we don't speak monkey. >> tempers flared when osha's attor

the time is 4:16 in a room with me right now is townus george tobin, is that correct? >> right. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> she was scalped and there was no blood. so pretty much we knew then that [ inaudible ]. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go of her? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the arm? >> he swallowed it. >> he swallowed it. so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> on behalf of the federal government, osha is suggesting that swimming with orcas is inherently dangerous and you can't predict the outcome when you come into their environment. >> what's the crux of the osha case? >> stay out of proximity with the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the whole industry. this was national headline news. >> seaworld's whale performances may never be the same. >> right now theme park is arguing in court to keep whale trainers in the water, something osha says is extremely dangerous. >> these are wild animals and they are unpredictable because we don't speak whale, tiger, m