george h.w. bush and his son george w. bush and it was confusing for george w. bush. george bush finally said i'm 41 and he's 43. brenly got so confusing they just said 41 and 43 as a way to distinguish them are. his chief of staff told me i think it was 43 who called president clinton 42 once and president clinton had made his day. he told the staff oh my gosh. i'm pretty sure was 43 who called in that. he said now i'm a member of the family. >> president bush was reagan's vice president for eight years and there's a question here about they were adversaries and i'm not sure president bush ever thought he would be picked for vp but talk about how that relationship grew between the two of them. >> i should point out and i apologize it predates my book and it predates when i was in president bush's inner circle so i know the answer, i do just from being around for 25 years. president reagan wanted george bush to be his veep p. candidate in the 11th hour at the republican convention. historians among you will remember it was former president ford to encourage a man that

jean becker was president george w. bushchief of staff and a five years from 1994 until his death in 2018. as chief of staff she had a ringside seat to the never boring story of george herbert walker bush is life after his presidency including being at his side when he died and subsequent facing the challenge and great honor of being in charge of his state funeral. previously jean served as deputy press secretary to first lady barbara bush from 1989-1992. as a former journalist she is also a member of the fulbright foreign scholarship board and the seachange can't support as well as ad hoc member of the advisory boards of the george bush presidential library of the george bush school of government public service. our moderator for tonight discussion is warren finch director of the george h.w. bush presidential library and museum. warren has more than 30 years of experience in the archives and records administration. first with the office of presidential libraries here in washington, d.c. and then with ronald reagan library i

george h.w. bush and his son george w. bush the artist who painted the portrait. it was confusing george w. bush you need to post this way, george bush finally said i'm 41, he's 43 and he said i can't. prime it got so confusing the artist did 41 and 43 because it was the way to distinguish them. >> president clinton told me once, i think it was chief of staff told me this that i think it was 43 who called president clinton 42 once and president clinton, it made his day. he told his staff all my gosh, i'm pretty sure it was 43 he called him back, he just called me 42, i am like a member of the family now, i thought that was funny. >> so president bush was reagan's vice president for eight years and is a question about, they were adversaries and i'm not sure president bush ever thought he would be picked for vp but talk about how that relationship grew between the two of them. >> i should say weber asked the question, i apologize, it predates my book and it predates when i was in president bush's inner circle so i know the answer, i do just from being around for 25 years, president reagan sort

and it was kind of confusing though, george w. bush saying you need to pose this way. i think george bush finally said i'm 41, he's 43. and the artist said, i can't call you -- and finally it got so confusing that the artist said 4 1, 43 was the way to distinguish them. >> president clinton told me once, or actually i think his chief of staff told me this, that i think it was 43 who called president clinton 42 once, and president clinton, it made his day. he told his staff, oh, my you know, i, i'm pretty sure it was 43 who called him that. he just called me 42. i'm now like a member of the family. >> yeah. >> which i thought was very funny. >> so president bush was reagan's vice president for eight years, and there's a question here about, you know, they were adversaries. i'm not sure that president bush ever thought he would be picked for the vp, but talk a little bit about how that relationship grew between the two of them. >> well, i should point out to whoever asked the question, i apologize, that predates my book, and it predates from when i was in president bush's

great portrait have george hw bush and his son george w. bush. and the artist who painted that portrait, and is kind of him accusing, georgia be bush setting by george w. bush and you need to post this way and george bush, i'm 41 and he is 43 and the artist said boy can't call you then and finally got so confusing that he said okay 41 and 43. and it the way to distinguish them. jean: he told me once, chief of staff actually told me that i think it was 43 who called president clinton 42 months and that president clinton and made his day and he told his staff, oh my gosh, i'm pretty sure it was 43 who called him without any said he just called me 42 and. now i'm a member of the family. i thought that was very funny. warren: so president bush was bragg's vice president for eight years and is a question her about there were adversaries. and i'm not sure the president bush ever thought he would be picked for the vp. talk about how that relationship grew between the two of them. jean: i should point out and apologize, predates from when i was in preside

this has gone all the way back to george w bush. ront - way back to george w bush. i think this is a really strong front page - this is a really strong front page and it's— this is a really strong front page and it's really fair, when the daily mail talks— and it's really fair, when the daily mail talks about translators hiding in fear. _ mail talks about translators hiding in fear. it— mail talks about translators hiding in fear, it sticks in the cross a bit. _ in fear, it sticks in the cross a hit. this— in fear, it sticks in the cross a bit, this analysis ofjoe biden. yes, _ bit, this analysis ofjoe biden. yes. there _ bit, this analysis ofjoe biden. yes, there have been for us presidents involved, but it is his misjudgment and failure of leadership, i would say, that has led to— leadership, i would say, that has led to the — leadership, i would say, that has led to the scenario. but he doesn't care what— led to the scenario. but he doesn't care what you and i think about this, _ care what you and i think about this, and — care wh

to r number 41, was that he stat using his initials because the 43rd president already went by george w. bushdistinguish himself from his father. my boss was urged to go by george hw bush and it irritated himri because he didn't want to start incorporating his middle name and thank heavens for the brilliant man i cannot remember now who it is. it's in the book, who came up with 41 and 43. president bush loved being called 41, and it was perfect. >> is a great story about that, there's a great portrait about george hw bush and his son and thee artist that painted that portrait. it was kind of confusing george w bush would say you need to pose this way. i'm 41, he is 43. finally it got so confusing they would say 41 and 43 because it distinguish them. president clinton told me once i think actually the chief of staff told me i think that it was 43 who called president clinton 42 and president clinton it made his day. he told his staff i'm pretty sure it was 43 who called him that so president bush was the vice president for eight years and they were both adversaries and i'm not sure that presid

george w. bush was very, very slow. people assumed he would stay low because of the great recession because of the iraq war which was unpopular because what some people saw a foreign policy suddenly is rising, why? people start reflecting differently. he responded very well to george w. bush. why the decency factor. this past year bill clinton and richard nixon fell some spots. you have to say why? i think because watergate was in the news so frequently. because of the lewinsky affair was being talked about during the double impeachments of trump. and this little spiel by saying nancy pelosi said during the impeachment to trump many democrats have said we are going to paint trump and history. were not going to remove him from office but there'll be a dent in his armor. this ship poll shows the dent. when you have a double impeachment of a president's pretty hard to see why people are going to be looking at that as being successful uniting of the nation. >> plenty to talk about in these two hours of the "washington journ

george w. bush was very, very slow. people assumed he would stay low because of the great recession because of the iraq war which was unpopular because what some people saw a foreign policy suddenly is rising, why? people start reflecting differently. he responded very well to george w. bush. why the decency factor. this past year bill clinton and richard nixon fell some spots. you have to say why? i think because watergate was in the news so frequently. because of the lewinsky affair was being talked about during the double impeachments of trump. and this little spiel by saying nancy pelosi said during the impeachment to trump many democrats have said we are going to paint trump and history. were not going to remove him from office but there'll be a dent in his armor. this ship poll shows the dent. when you have a double impeachment of a president's pretty hard to see why people are going to be looking at that as being successful uniting of the nation. >> plenty to talk about in these two hours of the "washington journ

more americans blame george w. bush for america's failure in afghanistan than any other president. 38% rate bush as the most responsible. 19% said donald trump. 12% said barack obama. this is according to an insider poll on fox news, sean hannity's program. donald trump wasn't afraid to point the finger back to george w. bush or the united states intervention in the middle east. here's what he had to say on the handy program last night. >> we took this horrible place. a place that we shouldn't have been involved with. it was a horrible decision, going into the middle east. i know the bush family will not be happy, but i believe it was the worst decision in history of our country, but we decided to go into the middle east. it turned out to be quicksand. we have destroyed the middle east, and is a bigger disaster now than it was 20 years ago. it was a horrible decision. it cost trillions of dollars. i like to look at both sides. millions of lives. it's no different than it was. it is much worse. it has been blown to piece

. >> you know, with george w. bush used to say i'm the decider and he operated with a certainty and the buck stops here attitude. harry truman was a great hero to george w. bush. the problem is if you're on a wrong policy, the buck doesn't just stop there. i'm the decider. and biden just got completely unspooled off his game. it's really been shocking to see but history will show george w. bush misled america after n9/11. we went into afghanistan and chased the afghan insurgents of alibi -qaeda and had a battle o bora bora but we went into iraq and we shouldn't have gone into iraq because bush wanted saddam hus hussein's head on a platter and saw there were weapons of mass destruction and there weren't. george w. bush gets low marks for handling of iraq and afghanistan. barack obama did better using drones, operation neptune spear that got osama bin laden and donald trump spent four years trying to get out unable to but not wanting to bring afgtghan knees to the united states as part of his anti immigration type of rhe

some polls are now showing that joe biden's handling of afghanistan is less popular than george w bush's handling of afghanistan. and we now have a situation where a senator bob menendez, representing the u. s. foreign relations committee of the senate. he's coming forward with this statement. the events of recent days have been the combination of a series of mistakes made by republican and democratic administrations over the past 20 years, including the trumpet, ministrations, flawed negotiations with the taliban. and the biden administration's florida execution of the us withdraw. the committee will seek a full accounting for these shortcomings. now, republicans are being far less forgiving. they say that jo biden's decision to rapidly pull out of afghanistan is harming the united states, discrediting the country, hurting relations with allies. there's been a fire storm of anger from the republican side of the aisle this biden administration. so they plan for every scenario. they told us to day prior that koval. ready cobble was not imminent, he told us less than a month before that th

also the channel out, the americans put the issue up to debate. former president george w bush issued a statement on this. he said that he felt, quote, deep sadness at the return to power by the taliban, and called biden's withdraw. these are all quote, he said, a mistake and unbelievably bad. we really began to lose the war in afghanistan in 2003 when he diverted attention to iraq. and instead of focusing on afghanistan as we got deeper, deeper and iraq, afghanistan became known as the forgotten war. and people were wondering what's going on with that war ended by the way. and that allowed taliban to begin to creep back in. and because all resources, all attention was thereby focused on iraq trying to trying to nation building and regime change. nation building, which were really, really crappy at the, by the way, and we need to get out of that business all together. and we, we failed. we failed in both countries. now we've got nothing but total disasters in both countries and over $60000000.00 worth of expenditure, not to mentioned the treasure of life and limb of countless american

until a long came george w bush and his crew. and they pulled the treaty. and then you saw rush say, well the man, we're going to have the new types of weapons we do because we can't expose ourselves. if you haven't did were the means you can strike us 1st and with no capacity like that because you have a defense. so a, we think it encourages the 1st like, but be in the is the only thing we can do depends we have many, many what you have. so then you then are still hesitant to come after us. so we spent a very destabilizing factor and you wouldn't want missile defense anyway, even if it did work because of those reasons. but the more credible part of this is we said $400000000000.00 kind of develop a system since i was that has never proven and so credible it isn't reliable, it doesn't work. it's only past night not making a lot of 19 tests. even those test split. so there's not realistic world conditions . and just it's not gonna work out. we physically can't work people with hearings on businesses. we come in and say this idea of having a system that work

george w. bush believed he could do the impossible. e who paid a heavy price in the war that george w. bush started. dan is a west point graduate who was a u.s. army infantry platoon leader in afghanistan in 2009. in a washington post article he wrote, quote, the awful scenes we are now witnessing were inevitable. inevitable is the same word that the republican white house press secretary used in 1975 to describe the fall of saigon and the fran sick, chaotic final days of the american evacuation from vietnam, inevitable. the day after the final helicopter left vietnam when the white house press secretary was asked how many people were evacuated, he said, quote, there is no complete count of the number of people we were able to evacuate. no complete count. that was the official white house count. no complete count. press secretary said, quote, as many were evacuated as was realistically possible, and everyone knew that thousands of people were left behind. and everyone knew there was nothing we could do about that because the way we evac

just as george w. bush wanted _ his family. just as george w. bush wanted to— his family. hed business — ago because there was unfinished business from his father's own iegacy~ — business from his father's own iegacy~ it _ business from his father's own legacy. it struck me really power for tonight. the front page of your own paper, — for tonight. the front page of your own paper, refugees and us marines murdered _ own paper, refugees and us marines murdered side by side. and would be refugees, people who want to be refugees, people seeking refuge but did not make it. the terrible thing _ refuge but did not make it. tte: terrible thing about what refuge but did not make it. tt2 terrible thing about what is happening out there and the chaos of this is you have these large crowds of people running about, it is disorganised, it is chaotic. and unfortunately, when you have the security situation that's as volatile as it is in afghanistan, it is catnip to organisations like isis. i will imagine that america will want to strike back and you'll want to strike back hard. certainly

and jack served under president george w. bush first as a special counsel to the department of defense from 2002 - 2003 and then as head of the office of legal counsel the justice department in 2003 - 2004. now professor at harvard law school, is also cofounder l'affaire in written previous books one a firsthand account of legal battling in the bush and ministration over territory imposing actions in there about the disappearance of jimmy hoffa and jack's relationship with his own stepfather was a prime suspect in the disappearance. involve service white house counsel to president obama, 2010 - 2011 and was a senior advisor to joe biden's campaign. he's professor at nyu law school and the codirector there of the legislative and regulatory process clinic. and jack and bob's book came out last fall before it was known whether or not trump would win a second term. another these out of office, the book is especially relevant to today's national discussion over how to repair the better institution trump left behind. books basic premise

the other six presidents primarily george w. bushfghanistan today not joe biden. >> and you were an advisor to? >> president george w. bush. >> matthew, thank you sir. appreciate you joining. >> thank you. >>> i want to make sure you know about we love new york city. it is a homecoming concert so join me, this is a once in a lifetime concert event this saturday starting at 5:00 p.m. exclusively on cnn. we'll be right back. mission control, we are go for launch. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. dry eye symptoms driving you crazy? inflammation might be to blame. inflammation: time for ache and burn! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. inflammation: those'll probably pass by me! xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. inflammation: xiidra? no! it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda-approved non-steroid treatment specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each e

a pole they did, americans rank george w. bush as the president most responsible for the outcome of the afghanistan war. this was from august 17. another piece in the guardian written by the former prime minister of england, you heard george w. bush reference england going to war with us in afghanistan. tony blair is condemning the dangerous u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. in a lengthy essay published on his website, the former prime minister who ordered british troops to join the invasion said the withdrawal has been a tragic and unnecessary decision that undermines the west's aims. he accused biden of being -- as if our engagement was compared to our commitment 20 or 10 years ago. let's hear from you. you say yes, it has been worth fighting. i'll come to the conversation. caller: good morning. my comment is the war in the beginning stages for the purpose it was for to kill osama bin laden who was in afghanistan at the time was yes. it was worth it because he was the orchestrator of 9/11. once he was killed, we should have gott

george w. bushjust issuing a statement on the fall of afghanistan and it says in part, the united states government has the legal authority to cut the red time for refugees during urgent humanitarian crisis and we have the responsibility and the resources to secure safe passage for them now without bureaucratic delay. our most stalwart allies along with private ngo's are ready to go. the bushes have a long history with afghanistan. this is personal for them. >> absolutely. george w. bush has gotten a lot of criticism and rightfully so for his managing of the war in afghanistan. listening to liz cheney and donald rumsfeld. here president biden is calling it straight. we at all costs have to bring our allies into the united states. these are the people who fought for democracy. they're our friends. and whether it is 20,000, 30,000 or more we could all be saying, look, the war ended. this is a good thing. the contingency plans unraveled. nobody knows what's going on. it's chaos. we might be able to tur

a pole they did, americans rank george w. bushs the president most responsible for the outcome of the afghanistan war. this was from august 17. another piece in the guardian written by the former prime minister of england, you heard george w. bush reference england going to war with us in afghanistan. tony blair is condemning the dangerous u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. in a lengthy essay published on his website, the former prime minister who ordered british troops to join the invasion said the withdrawal has been a tragic and unnecessary decision that undermines the west's aims. he accused biden of being -- as if our engagement was compared to our commitment 20 or 10 years ago. let's hear from you. you say yes, it has been worth fighting. i'll come to the conversation. caller: good morning. my comment is the war in the beginning stages for the purpose it was for to kill osama bin laden who was in afghanistan at the time was yes. it was worth it because he was the orchestrator of 9/11. once he was killed, we should have gotten

that survey notes more americans blame former president george w. bushor america's failure in afghanistan than any other president who succeeded him. 38% ranked bush is the most responsible. 27% said joe biden. 19% said donald trump. 12% said barack obama. yesterday on fox news on sean hannity's program, former president donald trump was not afraid to point the finger all the way back to george w. bush for the united states' intervention in the middle east. [video clip] >> think of it. we took this horrible place, a place that we should not have been involved. it was a horrible decision going into the middle east. i know the bush family will not be happy, but i believe it was the worst decision in the history of our country when we decided to go into the middle east. it has turned out to be quicksand. we have destroyed the middle east. it was a horrible decision that cost us trillions of dollars. if you look at both sides, millions of lives. it is no different than it was. it is worse. the worst decision ever made was going. you can do a strike as retrib

do you think the george w bush administration was transparent at the time of 911-2001? i don't actually have an issue with the bush, family and pen as president senior and junior ice di i think it stems way back when there was oppertunity to do things that didn't happen. so you know, i don't think i don't blame anyone. i think there was people to blame, but i don't think is one particular person or one president. i think it goes way back. i think it goes back to the 93 bombing of the world trade center. i think it goes back to you know, back what i mean. i didn't even know what a terrorist status. so i think this goes way back and it's bigger than we really can conceptualized because, you know, we need our leaders to be our guidance. you know, they're, they're the president for a reason. so i always feel that we have to have faith in that and i know that sometimes we find out things that we don't want to know and you talk about funding, things you don't want to know, are you sure you want to know what could be released from a new investigation and all these documents i p

starting with president george w. bush.now is host of deadline white house, nicolle wallace. she's a veteran of that bush white house. nicolle, good to see you. what was the discussion? take us back to those days in 2001? the room where it happens, as they say. what was the discussion in the room about the possibility of success in this country? because for many americans watching this tonight, it has the feeling of a greek tragedy. an inevitable outcome that finally happened. was there a feeling that this outcome could have been avoided? that this was a winnable war? >> yeah, i think 20 years ago and more recently, 16 years ago and 12 years ago, presidents bush and obama had such a different view on what was possible. it was president obama who was for the afghan surge. one of the more interesting aspects of working for john mccain when his rival in the democratic party was for an afghan surge and john mccain was viewed as the hawk there. then president trump's promise was to get out of afghanistan and in a lot of ways, th

i think president george w. bushtan but i think the initial mission that we took on back in the early 2000 was to remove the taliban to make sure that country and afghanistan could not be a threat of terrorism against the united states and the rest. but i think the president missed an opportunity this afternoon to address the humanitarian aspect of this at the outset of his speech. take humanitarian aspect of this at the outset of his speech.— humanitarian aspect of this at the outset of his speech. take me back to that time- _ outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you _ outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you are, _ outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you are, is _ outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you are, is not - outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you are, is not in - outset of his speech. take me back to that time. you are, is not in the | to that time. you are, is not in the room, certainly in the corridor is outside the room, did they envisage w

the other six presidents, primarily george w. bushle for what we're facing in afghanistan, today, not joe biden. >> and you were an adviser to -- >> president george w. bush. >> matthew dowd, thank you, sir. i appreciate you joining. thank you. >> thank you. >>> i want to make sure that you know about "we love new york city." it is the homecoming concert. so make sure you join me. this is a once-in-a-lifetime concert event. it's this saturday, starting at 5:00 p.m., exclusively on cnn. we'll be right back. icy hot. ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain. - that moment you walk in the office and people are wearing the same gear, you feel a sense of connectedness and belonging right away. and our shirts from custom ink help bring us together. - [narrator] custom ink has hundreds of products to help you feel connected. upload your logo or start your design today at customink.com for skin that never holds you back don't settle for silver #1 for diabetic dry skin* #1 for psoriasis

i mean george w. bush has gotten a lot of criticism and rightfully so for his managing of the war in afghanistan. listening too much to dick cheney and donald rumsfeld, but what you just read is exactly right. here ex-president bush is calling it straight. we at all costs have to bring our afghan allies into the united states. these are the people who fought for democracy. they're our friends. and, you know, whether it's 20,000, 30,000, or more, i think history will determine how this all went because this is our longest war. we could all be saying, don, look, the war ended, this is a good thing. but the contingency plans unraveled. nobody knows what's going on. it's chaos. but we might be able to turn this into a positive if we show we don't leave people behind like gerald ford did during the vietnam war, bringing the vietnamese, our friends, into america. >> before the president spoke today, douglas, former defense secretary leon panetta said he should take responsibility like jfk did after the bay of pi

the last time they did it was 2006 when george w. bush was president.helped usher it through the senate. republican congressmen jim sensen brenner championed it in the house. louis gohmert and devin nunes voted for it and president george w. bush proudly signed it into law. things are different in 2021. yesterday the john lewis voting rights advancement act passed the house of representatives, and every single republican, every one voted against it, all of them. liz cheney and adam kinzinger voted against it. because right now there is no such thing truly as a robust pro democracy republican in 2021. they're unwilling to do what republicans and democrats have always done to just secure the basic right to vote for all americans. joining me by phone is congress ann sheila jackson lee, a democrat representing texas' 18th congressional district. she was arrested last month at a demonstration rallying support for new federal voting legislation. congresswoman, first, i wonder if you could just describe what this bill does and compare it in its scope and boldn

general who served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for middle east policy in president george w bush's that coming up a little bit later on. a vigil has been held in memory of the five people killed by a gunman in plymouth on thursday, in the uk's worst mass shooting in over ten years. the dead include the mother of the gunman, who was the first to die, and a three—year—old girl, sophie martyn, who'd been out for a walk with her father who was also shot dead. two other people are recovering in hospital. 0ur correspondent, jon kay, has the latest, from keyham. plymouth is hurting tonight. in this neighbourhood, everyone knows one another. so, finding out who the victims were has only made things more painful. the youngest to be killed was just three years old. sophie martyn was out for a walk with her dad lee when they were both shot dead. i feel devastated for the family. paris and billy heard the news this evening. heartbroken. you were in tears, weren't you? it wasn't nice. it was devastating. itjust makes everything that worse, doesn't it, being a child? it's going to be different h

leon panetta, george w. busht been on the air but people around him -- all of them got it wrong, so why would we listen to them related to the pullout? >> let me try a theory and see what you think. i think all the journalists are personally -- they know this story personally. they know afghan interpreters, and they know afghan journalists. they maybe have been on military embeds and they feel a personal awareness of this story ane fear that these nd one thing, brian. 5,000 people, while this was going on, died of covid in this country. 500 people died of gun violence in the last week in this country. and not a single american has died amidst the pullout of this situation in a political hurricane, and i don't think the press fully understands what the context is for the american public. so when you understand the context not only of afghanistan but the context of what's going on in our country, there is far worse crisis situations including the assault on our democracy that get forgotten about in the midst of thi

i supported, i did not support the war in iraq, george w. bush war in iraq. i supported attacking the taliban after osama bin laden killed 3,000 americans on our own soil. however, what we did was screw up just like we did in vietnam, just like we did in iraq, just like we did in latin america before that. our foreign policy has never been thought out. the problem is it is not so much we went in, it is that we went in and made friends with the most corrupt people we could possibly find, as long as they were our people, we were willing to contribute to the corruption. we needed to get out and needed not to get bogged down in what we always do. it is a disservice to our military, i think the civilian leadership, not biden so much, i give biden credit for getting us out. it was an untenable situation. we put our military in terrible position because the political leadership of four administrations kept doing the same old damn thing we have done for 100 years in american foreign policy. i give biden a lot of credit for getting us out. i am upset we left a lot of

in the year 2000 he became the leader of george w. bush's legal team that prevailed in the landmark case of bush versus gore so we could not have a better lawyer leader to be part of this program and secretary baker. thank you for taking time and being with us today for the final mark of this important conference. >> delighted to be with you. >> you've been a leader in so many areas. the logical place to start the conversation is how do you define the word leadership? >> it was the great historian james mcgregor burns who said leadership is a commitment to values and perseverance to fight for those values. that's a pretty good description of leadership. the toughest part of that formula is the commitment to fight for those values and getting it done. in washington dc, even back in the days that i was there it is usually to kill deals, it is hard to make deals and the difficult part of leadership in my view is that doing, the knowing is important but not as tough as the doing. >> obviously a lawyer leader has to be able to persuade. the art o