george wallace. right now, in my golden years, i'm watching the rise of the most sinisterly political demagogue of the new century. right. and to me, the case here is commonality. the political demagogue is able get otherwise is smart, worthy people of good principles to believe and endorse practice, since they would not otherwise support. that's and to me right now, the obvious fact of the current landscape is we have a 5050 divide in this country who believe, in fact, based principle politics and people who believe in a kind of politics. that's a melange of. conspiracy theories and and and fake news to coin a term. so i think, you know, welling tan said the the the waterloo. it was a close run thing as to whether napoleon could be turned back. and i think this election is going to be a very close run thing. and i think if if this almost. terrifyingly gifted demagogue trump is elected i think we're will see some very harsh times and to tell you have can happen in a otherwise society after wallace ma

there was an unholy alliance in response to the increasing power of george wallace between the democrats and the republicans making it difficult for third party voices to be heard. that has not been good for america although we are at a point where everybody understands the conundrum in terms of what it help. what i find being out on the campaign trail is that americans are thinking about all of this. some people think that americans are apathetic but i do not think that. i think a lot of americans that i encounter cannot even believe that this is happening and that it has gotten to this point. i think we are in the middle of this deep inquiry with people i have talked to and we have a lot of months left before november. and i pray like many americans that we will find our way. and i think we will. host: do you think you will end up at the nominating convention? guest: so far i have not been treated like a welcome guest which i do not understand. as i said, i think a robust primary would have been good for the party and good for president biden. as if he was the eventual nominee. shaming

you have arkansas, louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia, they all went for george wallace.ve rfk, jr., can he make a tim lar impact this november? >> i think these young people who are protesting want something different. so i think, robert f. kennedy, jr. will stay in low double digits, 10, 12, 14%. that is enormous. if if fk does well he will discombobulate the election in many states. i don't care what the polls say, it will make it difficult for a lot of these states. charles: trump is aiming at him this weekend. appreciate your expertise always. >> yeah. charles: last week we saw the resurrection staffing-flation. it is not red on the screen. we'll ask economist john lonski where he sees the economy going. also hilary kramer would the fed actually do something for political motives? we'll be right back. ♪. after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" bacon and eggs 25/7. you're darn right. solar stocks are up 20% with the additional hour in the day. [ clocks ticking ] i'm ruined. with the ext

leading in the polls and then the reentered the race too late to enter the polls, but for my money george wallacein 1968. he won quite a few southern state, got 48 electoral votes, clearly damaged democratic candidate hubert humphrey. that was a palpable, real impact third party presence. is rfk that type of presence in. >> well, it's too early to say, but e it seems like the polls are conflicting a little bit because half of republicans have a favorable view of rfk jr., only 25% of democrats. and so those numbers give heart to some democrats who say they're going to take more votes away from republicans ask and trump, you know, with his anti-vaccine views than president biden. and so even -- what's interesting is in a third party, you know, we don't have any really role for a third party in the presidency because even if in an electoral college they were able to get a significant number of votes and it was able to go to the house of representatives, they would just pick one of the -- a democrat or a republican. neil: interesting. guys, we'll see what happens. man, a lot of cross-currents all at

george wallace got 13.5% of the vote and carried five states. it was a similarly chaotic time.possibility of being chaotic. i think it is a concern. >> john meacham, thank you. >>> when we come back, the inside story of how amazon grew into one of the most powerful and feared companies in the world, when the 11th hour continues. continues. oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. [music playing] tiffany: my daughter is mila. she is 19 months old. she is a little ray of sunshine. one of the happiest babies you'll probably ever meet. [giggles] children with down syndrome typically have a higher risk for developing acute myeloid leukemia, or just leukemia in general. and here we are. marlo thomas: st. jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. tiffany: she was referred to st. jude at 11 months. they knew what to do as soon as they got her diagnosis. they a

lbj did drop out and hubert humphrey did enter in, george wallace was a third-party candidate, we knowow richard nixon one. so when you hear that kind of talk today pressure on joe biden to do that, what do you say? >> well i think, you know, is a decision that only the president himself can make and i mean people from outside can make their judgements and what they want to have happened but we've got a system right now where the primary system is already closed up in a certain sense. and in another day, in other agent or whatever and conventions and the convention could have made a choice in the summer between both candidates. that is what is incredible to remember. we didn't know how to times who the nominee was going to be until july or august. and the campaigns didn't start until september. september 3rd was usually right after labor day, how much more fun there would be forever if we didn't have to live through these and thus campaigns as we do right now? and you trusted the party bosses then the two somebody would be right for the whole party tonight around. now finally there was

, the strongest 3rd party candidate of the 20th century with segregationist, alabama governor george wallace. in 1968, his anti civil rights platform won him 5 states in the deep south with 48 electoral votes. but republican richard nixon beat wallace, and democrat hubert humphrey calls on our fame song. in 1992 eccentric texas billionaire ross, perot's independent run, took enough votes from incumbent republican george h. w bush to hand the white house to democrat bill clinton. let us begin a new the most notorious 3rd party effect was on the 2000 election between texas governor george bush and vice president al gore. it comes down to florida. bush ends up winning florida by just a few 100 bucks. and so what explains that? well, the 3rd party candidates took enough votes away from al gore. but if he had had those votes, he would have present united states. and that brings us back to the independence running this year. they will most certainly lose, but the number of boats they may siphoned off from joe biden or donald trump in just a few states who decide the election. and that's why they a

it was a place where george wallace held a campaign rally in 19, i think it was 19. would have been 1972, right and this was touted as an example of, you know, the appeal of this sort of, what we would now call trumpian politics in these northern states beyond the south. that neighborhood is almost completely hispanic now. and so i think that, you know, i think the democrats have counted on i think they were hoping on latinos in particular being a block of voting bloc like african-americans that were solidly based on group identity. but it is a very diverse voting bloc. and i don't, you know it hasn't really worked out that way for them. so, frank, you working class joe was supposed do something about this. it seem that it's working out quite terms of the appeal to the working class voters. is he going to do it for us and is he going to do it for democrats in the 2024 election? is he going to thought you promised me i wouldn't have to be a soothsayer. so i think that it's it's interesting because he's i he's actually when you take a look at the white working class vo

a there's a point in your book where you say that you you're quoting george wallace and he says, tried to talk about good roads and good schools and no one listened. he's talking about his. then i talked n-words. they stomped floor. talk about how to jonathan's these like the riots in the late sixties lead to a different criminal justice system and in so to speak to why the people who run institutions and politicians go that direction rather than things like legislation. well they realize that in white america there's a lot support for beating this back. i mean, people are starting to flee cities like baltimore, reshape suburbs and communities and they want all of this to be as far from them as possible and to and so that translates into increased support investment in things like juvenile justice centers and new prisons, jails. and it makes them a lot less supportive funding for places like brownsville. and so right at that moment, employees, you know, think about this black employees have just gotten their foot in the door in this place. they're just starting to changes. some of them

where an eastern stage just before his death, and 68 years later, those same people voted for george wallace. why is that? they we populous. father captured them that energy with a powers of an idea. >> are you a populist? are you list, how would you describe it? >> itself as a populous, but my father was a popular h an a populace for idealism or for that merit because raiders, our signature values are democracy for free speech, for constitution for democracy, that's not run in captured by corporate interests and he wore and for the middle class, for the cops for the firefighters, for workinpeople in this country about rebuilding our middle-class about making sure our kids have, are able toive the american dream. there's american him when i was against that, if you weren't hardy, if he play, you can buy how she could finance it you could take it vacation, you could raise a family, you could put something aside for retirement on one job my kit, i have seven kids, aaron and not believe that that promise will be applies to them. and why an art there are sick today i was a kid juvenile diabetes,

we came close in 1969 and 1970 after the third-party candidacy of george wallace to eliminate the electoral. many cap -- maybe kennedy if he does well will create a threat to the stability of the electoral college. so who knows. that was the last time we almost got rid of the electoral college. host: melanie in cherry field, maine. democrat. good morning. caller: hello, i enjoy your show very much. i have two questions. you're just talking -- in order for a third-party to be successful you have to get rid of the electoral college, and you just answered how that could be done. but my second question is why not right choice voting. again, electoral college have to go for -- go first. guest: yes. i mean we are focused on the presidency as a place where we want a third party. and just because the president himself -- in is a narrow winner take all election you are going to wind up with two dominant candidates. but there is a real opportunity to have more parties in the legislature which is common throughout the world if we use proportional representation. and we could use fusion voting and sing

he even knew george wallace, the third party candidate in 68, and thought he called in his diary, called wallace. one of the greatest orders of the 20th century. his ability to sort of attract followers. we'll talk more about wallace and kind of his anti-elite, anti-state push, my candidate, which i think both parties have mimicked since then, but especially on the republican side of the aisle, because of donald trump, is really making a similar kind of anti elite, anti establishment kind of blue collar or middle class outreach, you know, to those voters. so graham is a fascinating figure. so i'll show you a couple of pages from the diary. don't feel the temptation to try to read it. i'll draw your attention to a couple of passages that i want, that i want to talk about. so graham had a long dictation about thisimperiod. again, reset the scene he's done and keep this gain with nixon and tryingo help nixon answer e question what do i do? do i run or not? who am i going to run against and what am i getting myself into, you know, a third time. and so this is all new information that's in th

trying to figure out how after bobby's tragic assassination, his votes, many of his votes went to george wallacecan't sort it through. you never know how this is going to break. at least in this nbc news poll, it certainly looks like one anti-vaxer is going to be, you know -- a conspiracy theorist, i guess i should say, is going to be taking votes from another conspiracy theorist. >> that's certainly where sort of common sense, barstool analysis would lead you, right? if you're thinking about voting for an anti-vax person, i don't think your second choice is going to be the democratic incumbent who believes in science and is a politician who is arguing for a constitutional and rational order. doesn't seem like exactly where you'd go. historically, you're right, wallace in '68, john anderson in 1980. of course, ross perot in 1992, who got 19%. still a huge debate within bush world, both the senior president bush, believed perot cost him the election. when you dive into the data, it gets tricky. but when you have an alternative to the duopoly, you end up in a very chancy place. particularly becaus

george wallace said the same thing. who wants to lie down in the street and protest in front of my car, that'll be the last car he ever lies down in front of. i would say the same thing about this year. if you like protest, don't hand the election to donald trump. he will make sure that protest, in many ways, is constricted and restrained and, in some cases, abolished in the country a year from now. be very careful about what you do and say. >> nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss, staff writer at the "atlantic," george pecker, and "forbes'" randall lane, the exclusive, "why employers are souring on ivy league grads and the so-called new ivies that are emerging," you can find that as forbes.com. randall, thank you for that. >>> coming up, we're going to hear from bill barr again, his latest excuse defending donald trump. >>> also, the story about kristi noem murdering her 14-month-old puppy. >> in a gravel pit. >> thinking it was a political win. while she was at it, she figured she'd murder her goat, too.

he's a documented separatist whose mentor was governor george wallace. he has been consistent in his attack on black america. so now his alliances have been with preachers, big preachers who again talk to their persian or zim persuade them not to read. i would never vote for joe biden and it is fundamentally grounded in his policies. there is no anti--- there is no bill for the eradication of anti-. there was an anti-asian bill and there were no laws that fundamentally disprove that he has done anything beneficial for the black community and for the black woman who -- a bomb it's tale often with the black community that if you want to hide something from them propagandize it. >> that's who you are not supporting. who are you supporting actually? >> i'm supporting donald trump. we have no alternative. we have no alternative because we have to look at the border. we have to look at our policies that have to be implemented so we don't implode as a country. that's the first thing and everything else will fall into place. >> maryland is next on the independen

there was an unholy alliance in response to the increasing power of george wallace between the democratsnd the republicans making it difficult for third party voices to be heard. that has not been good for america although we are at a point where everybody understands the conundrum in terms of what it help. what i find being out on the campaign trail is that americans are thinking about all of this. some people think that americans are apathetic but i do not think that. i think a lot of americans that i encounter cannot even believe that this is happening and that it has gotten to this point. i think we are in the middle of this deep inquiry with people i have talked to and we have a lot of months left before november. and i pray like many americans that we will find our way. and i think we will. host: do you think you will end up at the nominating convention? guest: so far i have not been treated like a welcome guest which i do not understand. as i said, i think a robust primary would have been good for the party and good for president biden. as if he was the eventual nominee. shaming s

he is a documented separatist whose mentor was governor george wallace.e has been consistent in his attack on black america. now, his alliances have been with preachers, big preachers who, again, talk to their parishioners and persuade them not to read. i would never vote for joe biden. it is fundamentally grounded in his policies. there is no bill for the eradication of anti-blackness. there are no laws that fundamentally disprove that he has done anything beneficial for the black community. for the black woman who seems to think obama is still in office, it is a telling tale. too often within the black community if you want to hide something from them, put it in a book, propagandize it. host: that is who you are not supporting. who are you supporting actually? caller: donald trump. we have no alternative, no alternative. if he is the border. policies that have to be implemented so we do not implode as a country. that is the first thing. then everything else will fall into place, in my opinion. host: david in clinton, maryland. caller: good morning. good

caller: i voted for george wallace, ross perot, i raised 10,000 signatures for ross perot to be votedsouri. i voted for bush. i voted for obama. i have been all over the place. i am 81 years old, so i've seen a lot in this country. what scares the hell out of me right now is that we are losing our democracy and i think we are heading for a dictatorship, and it is the evangelicals, 13% in the congress in 2018 to 168 members, 31% in congress today. host: skip in missouri. back up to the supreme court, tammy thueringer. >> we are still waiting to see if people get into the oral arguments, about to start in 10 minutes. two people who are hoping to get in are with me now. what are your names? >> carol rich. >> robconkel. >> where are you from? >> st. thomas virgin islands. >> you got in last night and decided to come here? >> yes, we did. we knew before we came that this morning would be at historic argument so we decided to see if we could come down and witness it. >> have you been following the arguments and the immunity case at all? >> absolutely. of course. ever since this began. it's

anytime i see trump standing on a courthouse, it brings back bad memories of politicians to me like george wallace and alabama and segregation. it's not a good idea that you have to be in a court dealing with hush payments to a porn star. yet yesterday, the former first lady melania trump, is putting out mother's day jewelry. we are in a very confused america where pop culture, tabloid culture, celebrity, death, disaster trial is all intertwined into a big ball of entertainment voters are going to be bombarded over these next few weeks with all these images of trump as a criminal defendant, do you think it will impact the campaign and if so, just negatively for donald trump, or might he be able to successfully use this as? part of his campaign argument that he's under attack from the bad guys you know, i don't think this helps donald trump in the election against biden come the fall short-term. >> it does have the sugar effect of fundraising. and he's playing the victim and he knows how to do it quite well. this is an alien city to donald trump. trump towers still in operation and making deals dow

wallace. while she was working as the press r, the communications director for the george bush administration. now she's a journalist with her own show, sarah huckabee worked. 1 for the trump administration and then went to work in fox and now she's working as a governor in the state of arkansas. she goes from government to media back to government, her dad mike huckabee same thing, governor of arkansas has his own show on fox news. and we got one more, let's see. oh donna, brazil. i mean, my goodness, donna, brazil who essentially works as the director of the dnc pitts. i'm really controversial stuff. they are giving people questions and now she works for journalism enterprise. i mean, we have to ask ourselves, as we look at sean spicer as well, who now is an anchor man? it's some cable news channel, even though he was working for the government. i hear all the time, all the time. we're state tv, right. anybody who works for any foreign country, like china, or russia or whatever name your country, anybody who we don't like that we. well barrett journalists, are all really propagandist and sta

george conway. he told nicolle wallace about it. tell a story i've never told publicly before. but i remember that evening when anderson cooper interviewed mcdougal. i was sitting at dinner with my ex-wife, with jared kushner, and ivanka trump. and the phone rings. and ivanka goes into the kitchen, answers the phone. oh, it's daddy. and what did daddy want to know. whether they were watching karen mcdougal. so he was, you know, he was very very concerned about it. >> so i said a moment ago, and andrew weissmann points this out. the 24 million was regarding stormy daniels, not karen mcdougal, but this was george conway telling, you know, this network that he was at a dinner where he heard donald trump talking about this. could he end up testifying? i mean, is this an opening for the d.a. to call george conway? >> you know, i don't think so. what i would say is it's consistent with, you know, that he's reacting to this, but it's not really corroborative of exactly what david pecker is saying because, you know, david pecker has a direc