as you know, he was not born gerald ford. he was born wesley king jr one of the things that sets this book apart are discoveries. president ford could have destroyed the papers with his mother's divorce case, and when read them, i could see why he might have been tempted to. it was a disastrous marriage, dorothy gardener. king had one of those honeymoons where before it was half over, she obviously was thinking. what did i get myself? her husband was abusive physically, emotionally, verbally and the marriage was basically over almost as soon as it began. but a woman in 1913 had very, very limited options and dorothy gardner king is an extraordinary i mean, gerald ford credited her, among other things, with his lifelong habit of seeing the good in everyone, which some people more cynical types took as a form of naivete. in any event, one of the things that i saw for the first time was gerald ford's baby book, very poignant entry, baby's first automobile ride turns out to have been taken two weeks after his birth, two days after

that is an echo of what gerald ford said.the country to say let's move on from this ugly chapter? >> no, first of all detail the country that. gerald ford was defeated, and i want to tell that to every single republican candidate, who says that they want to pardon trump. ford lost his effort to be elected president, because of the pardon. and any candidate who is going to support a dual system of justice, create a kind of special sort of almost monarchy, so that our presidents are beyond the reach of the law, beyondbeyond accountability, thy will go down to defeat. that is a very powerful lesson, do not play around with and pander with regard to pardons. that is a dangerous and wrong thing to do. and it didn't heal the country. because we never dealt with the underlying problems of a rogue president. a president who has no guardrails. a president who disobeys the law. we saw haven't done that with regard to what we found out with respect to trump. so it is wrong to focus on a pardon. let the criminal justice system work. mayb

he was pardoned by gerald ford. nixon showed very little contrition.president does something, that means it's not illegal. and even after that, he said that he had been railroaded, and should never have been driven out of office in the first place. >> i've to tell you, so much of what you've said between state constitutional convention, and alexander hamilton, reminded me that half of what i know about history is informed by musicals. when you said constitutional convention all i could hear was lin manuel miranda saying i was chosen for the constitutional convention. when you talk about ford pardoning nixon, what do you think the lesson is today? >> the lesson to presidents like donald trump, and others since then, has been that presidents live in a stratosphere that other americans don't. that if you commit a crime, and if after you leave office, as nixon was in danger of doing, you were indicted. and you are in danger of going to prison. the nixon president shows that you will probably be given a pardon by someone, or you will be left off because the

as we learned from gerald ford. >> do you think any of them believe that? or do you think it's just a talking point? >> that's a good question. luckily, i've run out of time. i have to start my show. you can't put me on the spot like that. anyway, great to see you my friend. take care. good evening to you, and welcome to ayman tonight. debunking donald trump, his lies, and false equivalency's about the documents case. they have reached some insane levels. we're gonna help set the record straight. then, ethics outrage, new reporting on clarence thomas's problematic patterns of behavior. and a possible breakthrough in a senate committee's attempts to get answers. plus, democratic pushback. representatives judy chu, and ted lieu, shut down republican defenses of trump's actions. they're gonna join me live to talk about that and more. i'm ayman mohyeldin, in new york, let's get started. tonight, we begin with a new move from the justice department and it's classified documents case against donald trump. in a motion filed late yesterday, special counsel jack smi

and then when gerald ford pardoned him, that putting nixon on trial could have worse and political divisions and tensions in the us and. and how does that compare with what's happening right now, from your standpoint? a really great question and looking at historical parallels, i think it's an actual to think about richard nixon who was singled out by a grand jury in 1974 over watergate, but he was an indicted co conspirator. at which point of course he resigned. and that pointed impeachment, which would have only been a political act and not a legal act. reportedly, some members of the prosecution team then did consider bringing criminal charges against nixon. but it never came to fruition largely because of concerns about what it would mean for the country and what president would it would set. i do think that that case is a little bit different than the one that is in front of us now. precisely because it was republicans fellow allies of richard nixon who turned on him. in this case, we don't have that. we have much more division where it's democrats versus republicans. we have seen some

and that it could worse than political divisions. president gerald ford's partners nick, submit the decision to indict was never taken 50 is on there were concerns about the impact this case could have on a d. p divided society is convicted. the former president could spend the rest of his life in prison in an important sense. this is unprecedented. these most recent events, we've got a former president who seeking re election, who's been indicted by the department of justice that's overseen by is likely competitor in the upcoming election. these are an extraordinary set of events. this indictment could have far reaching consequences, not just the trump, but also the us democracy, victoria gates and b for inside story the . all right, let's go and bring in our guests in washington dc is era can author of the g o p civil war inside the valve for the soul of the republican party? eric is also a former us congressional staff in baltimore is debbie hines, former assistant attorney general of maryland and a former baltimore prosecutor and in london is thomas gift associate professor and founding

gerald ford, a well-intentioned man.don nixon only 30 days after nixon resigned? what was his hurry? village cliff it was politically damaging to him, as i think he would agree. if he had waited a little while longer. he might not have sent so many republicans to defeat in that november election. so my point is, why was for it in such a hurry? and if he had at least waited for nixon to be indicted, arrested, fingerprinted, or maybe even jail for a night or two. maybe someone like donald trump decades later would be with a little bit last cavalier about breaking all sorts of rules that might subject him to the same faith? >> you know that's exactly what i've been thinking. donald trump is a very very bad student. no matter what you expose him to in any class. and what it seems that what donald trump. bad student learned in 1974 was the president is above the law. and then when he became president. he thought he could live by the nixon roles which is that you are above the law. and nixon didn't get in any real trouble for

gerald ford, a well-intentioned man. on earth did he pardon nixon only 30 days after nixon resigned? what was his hurry? village cliff it was politically damaging to him, as i think he would agree. if he had waited a little while longer. he might not have sent so many republicans to defeat in that november election. so my point is, why was for it in such a hurry? and if he had at least waited for nixon to be indicted, arrested, fingerprinted, or maybe even jail for a night or two. maybe someone like donald trump decades later would be with a little bit last cavalier about breaking all sorts of rules that might subject him to the same faith? >> you know that's exactly what i've been thinking. donald trump is a very very bad student. no matter what you expose him to in any class. and what it seems that what donald trump. bad student learned in 1974 was the president is above the law. and then when he became president. he thought he could live by the nixon roles which is that you are above the law. and nixon didn't get in a

. >> brian: they used to do that with gerald ford. but he was in his 50's. he fell.sy. >> ainsley: they used to what? >> brian: chevy chase made fun of the fact that gerald ford fell two or three times. he was the center for the football team. booking coach at yale. he was the best athlete ever to hold the office so they could have fun with him. no one is going to be having fun, i don't think, with this. that's what i noticed ron desantis did not say oh yeah this guy is too old. he just said i hope he is okay. same thing with president trump. it's sad to see. but i also think it was so interesting to hear donald trump make fun of himself going down that ramp. i give this great speech but everyone talked about how slow i walked because you have -- i have these. i wear these white ones now but when you have a new canvas shoe, you slide until you scuff them up. that's what he h he went down there like he is too old. there is something wrong with him. that was the story. i made a mistake going down that way. and i told the general. >> go down the ramp slowly, eviscerated

but i think that the pardon of richard nixon was interrupted the process, and caused gerald ford to be trump, that they could get away with this, they can. can't. actually, the pardon itself might be an abuse of power and impeachable offense, if not a crime. >> let's take a quick break. i want to continue this conversation, because, lacey brought up the judge in this case and how that may be complicating things. we've talked about the fact that a potential pardon attempt could be headed to the supreme courts, if that is the case, i want to discuss both of those things with you on the other side. jill wine-banks and elizabeth holtzman, please stay with me. we'll be right back. ht back. shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. ♪ so caramel swirl is always there for the taking. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. as americans, there's one thing we can all agree on.

i wrote a book on gerald ford and i interviewed him a lot but we're seeing the danger.y -- he suffered enough, my friend. long time friend richard nixon. that we're going to put him out of his misery. and it is true, nixon served our u.s. armed forces and he was an incredible foreign policy president with the soviet union and the 1972 visit to china. but so i always thought he did the right thing because as ford memoirs called it, time to heal. but alas we see a president that, like donald trump, got the wrong lesson, that you could get away with it and that combo of nixon not doing any jail time, marries into donald trump roy cohen. people have talked about in the press a lot, but fixon, at the time of watergate, the guy that donald trump admired the most in america is roy cohen, who had four indictments charges. he ended up beating three of the four wraps. one was a mistrial. trump learned everything from roy cohen, which is to delay. stall. obfuscate. cohen denounced the irs as being a soviet s.w.a.t. team or a nazi operation and you see trump and his followers demon

. >> his successor, gerald ford, pardoned nixon before he could be prosecuted. l free card. too did ford ever regret his decision? let us ask someone who spoke to the former president about. it nbc news presidential historian, michael beschloss. michael, i want to start by playing just a quick portion of an interview nixon gave three years after watergate. take a listen. >> great. >> when the president does it, that means it is not illegal. >> by definition. >> exactly. >> michael, it sounds a lot like donald trump, as you have noted on this network in recent days. the two did get a chance to know each other before nixon's death. talk us through the parallels as you see them. >> beginning with the fact that gerald ford, and you know this from history, alicia, in 1974, became president in august. nixon was in imminent danger of being indicted. and probably imprisoned, because it was thought to be a pretty open and shut case. so the surviving prosecutors -- forward was, you know, had been advised, well maybe you can pardon nixon. but probably you should wait until

remember chevy chase going after gerald ford because he tripped once -- remember?n thing is just because you can't talk doesn't mean you can't dress nicely. he goes to neiman-marcus and it's hard for the guys, shirt, i need a shirt for the back of my head. it's hard. they want to get him out of the score. give him a hoodie and basketball shorts and get him out of here. he is affecting our business right now. >> [laughing]. >> greg: i lovedgressing like that. now i can't because it's of the fetterman look -- [laughing]. fire bad. [laughing]. you better not point this stuff out. you are cruel. you are right. i am cruel but i am also honest. up next the academy holds down the scales to keep out the straight white males. (woman) what if all i do isn't enough? or what if i can do diabetes differently? (avo) now you can with once-weekly mounjaro. mounjaro helps your body regulate blood sugar, and mounjaro can help decrease how much food you eat. 3 out of 4 people reached an a1c of less than 7%. plus people taking mounjaro lost up to 25 pounds. mounjaro is not for people

and he was pardoned by richard by gerald ford. so he was on the verge of indictment, but the part and saved him by putting that aside. yeah. when you have a president who's done on president things, including the latest from michael pins, telling mr. pants when he was vice president, you got to choose between the constitution and b. and 10 said i'm going to choose the constitution. no other present in the history of the united states and over 230 years that every us as vice president to trash the 12, the man. so yeah, this is unprecedented because the wrong doing is unprecedented. then we have an expectation of when the set of charges will be on sale to, to ascertain how strong a case the prosecution actually has as well. we expect them on tuesday, they actually reduce the charges, they'll be the arraignment. now that doesn't mean all the evidence will be forthcoming, but it does seem if we accept the truth of this. so many of the stories appearing in the newspapers that they've got a wealth of evidence that mr. trump knew about w

were two presidents in the white house today, richard nixon on his way out, and our new president gerald fordost historic night in this wall's history. >> america has been attacked, and it has been changed. this is the first great test of the new century for this nation. >> today, all you can see is the thick black smoke that is clouding the area. >> this is the u.s. army's 3rd infantry division. >> one out of five workers are losing their jobs. good evening from a battered and soaked city of new orleans. >> we just need some help out here. >> are you doing anything to help these people? >> we have people coming to help. >> the oil is presenting yet another danger. >> its waters are vital to louisiana's seafood industry. >> a truly striking new look at sandy's devastation. the hardest-hit area continues to be the shoreline of new jersey. >> so many people depend on this boardwalk. >> it's a dangerous canyon right now. we lost another soldier. >> the last bastion of the islamic state, tonight, is on fire. >> how many shooting scenes do you think you've been to? >> since i started this? >> yes.

president, they are going to pardon them, it's conceivable that a democratic president in the spirit of gerald ford to save the country civil strife would pardon him but i can tell you this if they want to lay that case because of the election and because of the state case in new york, they are going to be able to do it and i think it would be foolish of him to rush in and try the case quickly because he's got a favorable judge, he's got a favorable venue, it's likely there will be some maga people on that jury, and legally he's got some issues as well and i'm not saying it will be a cakewalk, there are serious charges but he's got a lot to work with. neil: one juror says i'm not sure on any of these accounts did fascinating, thank you very much. i learned a lot. >> thanks for having me. neil: i would go to the democratic strategist, gop strategist, doug, let me go to you first, the backdrop for all of this is a president who's getting up there but he has something else, inflation coming down so the white house no doubt is going to argue whatever the drama on the other side and their leading conten

donald trump could be fighting to pardon himself or we could see a gerald ford/richard nixon situation with another republican vowing to absolve trump of his sins iechlts more than blue versus red. it's about donald trump's freedom. joining me now is mara wiley, a former assistant u.s. attorney. molly host of the fast policy and catie beck. i'll start with you. jack smith says he wants a speedy trial. as we mentioned by most accounts it certainly would not wrap up before the 2024 election. what is your reporting telling you about the conversations inside the justice department about this timeline, and is there any way for jack smith to expedite things up? >> the justice department has said in a filing if it goes to trial, they could wrap up their case in 20 to 21 days. what would prevent this from wrapping up before the election? it would be all of the motions that happened before a trial and before jury selection. it would be donald trump's team for motions to dismiss the case and they would have a lot of argument and discussion on what witnesses could be put on the stand and what evi

gerald ford -- it's definitely nixon. will: going nixon too . rachel: uh-huh.be informally celebrated before. last question, the nation's first father's day celebration took place in which state? rachel: i know the answer to this because my dad talked about this yesterday with my dad. pete: okay, you chime in last. virginia, texas, washington, or nebraska? will: what would rachel know gush why would he dad know? pete: i'm going virginia becaus- will: i'm going virginia too because it's the oldest state. pete: queenlet have the -- we can't have the same answer because we'll be tied. going texas to differentiate and tie them. rachel: my dad was talking to me about the origins and it's washington. washington state. it's a woman that started it in washington state. pete: now you can't even say father in washington. rachel: i know, it's ironic. birthing person and non-birthing person. rachel: that's where it's gone in washington state. there was a time when washington was normal. pete: there's a huge part of the state on the east side that look as lot more like idah

debate, debate, debate, and heard the same thing with ted kennedy in 1980 with jimmy carter, with gerald fordcumbent president with ronald reagan challenging him in 1976, it never comes to pass. >> yeah, i don't think that president biden is going to be debating rfk, jr. or marion williamson and which state should go first. a lot of people saying if new hampshire goes first and defies the democratic party, biden may not be on the battle. and new hampshire is a swing state and that could hurt him in the general. that's one to watch. i agree you, president biden is not doing any debates, certainly in the primary. neil: thank you, my friend. we'll be talking to the out-going patrol chief on all border issues on tuesday on your world. and meanwhile, more potential hacking problems involving amazon and web services are having problems, down for the moment and separately amazon's alexis service having problem and to complete the hat trick, they don't know the origin, the ring service. whether it's to do with department of energy and the university of georgia, john hopkins, we could go on and on, we

what did he -- i remember chevy chase going after gerald ford because he tripped once. remember?etterman thing, look, just because you can't talk doesn't mean you can't dress nicely. you know? but he goes if neiman marcus and it's hard for guys to get like shirt fire bad, i need the shirt for the back of my head. it's hard. they want to get him out of the store. just give him a quadruple hoodie and some basketball shorts and get him out of here. you know? he's affecting our business right now. [laughter] >> greg: i used to love dressing like that but now i can't because it's the fetterman look. [laughter] >> greg: it bugs me. >> rob: fire bad. >> greg: fire bad. but you better not point this stuff out. you point this stuff out, you know, you're cruel. and you're right. i am cruel. but i'm also honest. >> all right up next, the academy holds down the scales to keep out the straight white males. [cheers and applause] >> [cheers and applause] ♪. >> greg: is the woke curse making movies worse?ie oscar voters are slamming rules for 2024 that would require films to meet diversity requi

when gerald ford pardoned nixon, it was because he got to him, i spent hours talking to ford about thiso longer as president had to operate in his political interests. you know what, he was president of the united states and he had to say and be think, what's in the national -- and he found that by getting nixon off the front page into the history books and got his tapes and did a public service in the national -- >> national interest. it's a lovely thought. coming up, how classified documents are supposed to be handled. hear from a former deputy director of intelligence that once briefed trump when n trump was in office. stay with us. ew questions. boom, you get a real offer. sell your car to c carvana toda. is it possible to protect my business from cyber threats? it is, with comcast business. helping every connected device stay protected. yours. your employees'. even... susan? -hers, too. safe. secure. and powered by the next generation 10g network. with comcast business, advanced security isn't just possible. it's happening. get started with fast speeds and advanced security for $49

remains president or somebody else other than trump is president, they may choose to move like gerald ford did and pardon him or somehow prevent him from having to go to jail, but if he's convicted, jail is the logical outcome of such a conviction. >> michael zell zin, appreciate your analysis, thank you very much. >>> president biden has so far refused to comment on the special counsel's indictment of donald trump. hear from the other 24 candidates about the indictment. >>> also, four children have survived more than a month alone in the amazon. how rescuers located them and what we're hearing from their families this morning. that's's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. (vo) with their vererizon private 5g network, associated british ports can nonow precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. passing (dock worker) uk port every yeright on time. (vo) make ieven smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. (vo) consumer reports evaluates vehiclesor car shoppers in... reliability, safety, owner satisf

presidential candidate ronald reagan using the issue of affirmative action to protect president gerald ford and his democrat rival, jimmy carter. now reagan didn't win the presidency. he didn't even make it past the primaries. but oh boy did he get his chance to chip away what he called the federal distortion of the principle of equal rights when he won the presidency in 1980. when reagan took office, he found the perfect person to chip away at affirmative action. he put that man, his perfect candidate, in charge of the equal employment opportunity commission, the eoc, the branch of the justice department is supposed to bring cases about workplace discrimination in hiring in harassment. the man's name was clarence thomas. he was a young black lawyer who graduated from yale law school just eight years before reagan omnipotent him. and this is how one of that man's classmates describes clarence thomas's feelings about affirmative action. clarence thomas, by the way, attended schools and universities that were specifically trying to increase the number minority students and their student bodie

i don't think that gerald ford suffered quite to degree, but he he did have and some of them you couldanalogize hoover's. well, that's all the time we have for questions right now. so thank so much for joining us today. we thank you all for coming. thank you. before we wrap up, i want to just highlight three upcoming events in august. have our next installment of the acting lectures with dr. caleb fuller on his most recent book. and then in september, we'll have greer from hope international, talking about the gift of disillusionment. another talk on leadership. and then we also have a free and virtual society conference in new york city clergy and, other nonprofit leaders. so thank you so much for joining us today. and let's give a round of applause to dr. nash. thank you

them slack for how they did but if you go to three all area, nontraditional republican presidents, gerald ford in 1970. so he started from a lower point. but what we did see in 2020 was an uptick in black and hispanic support. that has a lot to do with how those groups fared economically during the trump years. we saw a record low unemployment for blacks and hispanics, record low poverty rates for blacks and hispanics and more importantly we sought black wages rising at a faster rate than white wages during that stretch prior to covid. you also have to remember how bad lacks had it economically for a majority of obama's presidency.a' black unemployment did not fall below double digits until the seventh year of the obama presidency. that's, blacks had a very bad under president obama. they supported him overwhelmingly, he was well liked among whites, he still is, polls very well in terms of popularity but his economic policies, his stewardship of the economy did not go over well with blacks or whites. so i think blacks remember how bad things were in under trump when they saw their patient and

yet gerald ford pardoned nixon.o we never had an indictment fever that we're seeing right now, that is what makes this so unique. we're hearing republicans, some, running for president saying if you elect me, i will then pardon donald trump even if he gets busted. but i think the real story here is the clock. donald trump's lawyers will kick this story down the road as far as they can. the strategy of trump is to win. once he's president, these charges can be dropped, he will find himself in free light and sunshine. so it is a game running against -- the november 2024 election. >> absolutely, the clock is ticking as you said. to quote donald trump said, it was a dark day for america. how big of a test is this for the nation here do you think? >> i think there is some trump fatigue. a lot of people are getting tired of hearing about it. these are not the only indictments. there are more to do when you look at what happened in georgia. but this is a lot more significant than stormy daniels and hush money. this is trum

it's true other presidents have also's been spelled, gerald ford on the steps of air force one, famouslysh tumbled off a segway once one thing with the president he was young and vigorous you know they're going to get out. voters already have doubts about president biden's fitness. he wants to stay in office for four more years until he is age 86. it is no laughing matter when it 80-year-old takes a spell like that. quicksort kyle will see how this affects people's perspective of the president but if you have your own hit or miss tweeted to us jtr on fnc productive for this week show. thanks to my panel and thanks to all of you for watching. hope to see you right here next week. ♪. arthel: 2024 public and kenneth descending on iowa for the annual roast and a ride impacts florida governor desantis speaking right now. let's take a listen request that will irrevocably change this country and we will be in a hole that will take a generation to be able to dig out of it. president reagan said freedom is only one generation away from extinction. it is not passed along in the blood stream must b

gerald ford changed his. and former senator gary heart was born gary warren in november of 1936. his faem changed husband name long before the thought of running for office entered his mind. the trump family is not immune. it's not always been trump. it's originally got changed sometime between the 1600s and when his late grandfather arrived in the united states in 1885. however, he pronounces his name, the governor of florida finds himself in an even more crowded field of challengers to the former president proving the point i med here last week. everybody is jumping in the candidate pool despite the lead in the polls.h9qñ no doubt because his standing is imperilled by prosecutors. they are all ready declared. next week foral announcements expected from mike pence, chris christie and governor doug burr gam. and chris sununu is mulling it over. trump claims he's baffled as to why he has so many opponents, but seems to relish them all cutting into desantis' second place. >> i don't know why people are doing it. they are at 1%. you really go after the one who is second. i don't thi

. >> what is striking about the answer, first part you think there is some precedent, gerald ford, nots, but pardoning nixon may have cost him re-election. and you wander in to the third world country comment -- that loses me. but you spend a large portion of your time also paying close attention to another investigation ongoing down in georgia. and somof your reporting, georg law enforcement was watching. >> yeah, we've known this for a while, they wanted it to be sort of quiet about it, but they were in new york scoping out what the security situation was there, how they secured the courthouse there. and they did the same thing in miami to see how they were grappling with donald trump's appearance and security concerns. they are getting ready. the district attorney in fulton county has signalled had she will make announcements on whether anyone will face charges in essentially the first three weeks of august. and i know from my conversations with people is one of the big concerns is that they don't have any security issues there. they are worried about the former president's security

was such a great story to be working on whether ronald reagan was going to pick former president gerald fordvote and what you got, and he asked you to get out of the race, he might have been the winner. what would you say to bob doll? >> there may not be a war room per se, but white house officials certainly team in full battle mode. >> now the hairstyles. >> they were awesome. they were very on trend. >> slightly -- >> you're always on trend. did it feel different. are you optimistic that america can get even maybe not back to that but closer to that? >> i am. as i think i suggested a moment ago, we are in a very tough moment right now in american politics. there's just a lot of mud slinging happening and people are angry, but, in fact, you know, people -- the two political parties were at each other's throats then, but it was much more civil. i remember covering bob doll and then harry reid going at each other and then harry reid called president george w. bush a loser and then apologized for it. it was just a different tone at the time. >> yeah. i was thinking you're saying bob dole, stop

gerald ford beat ronald reagan. it is very tough inside the party.s that week by week he looks like he is less there. you can't be president of the united states four hours a day. it is not possible. what protects him in part is kamala harris. nobody in their right mind is gonna suggest that she would be a better president than biden because four hours a day of biden is better than three minutes of kamala harris. it is impossible. >> what do you bet that gavin newsom probably on a daily basis getting dozens of calls from people saying you really need to get in? >> i think that's true for whitmer in michigan and true of the new governor of pennsylvania. there are a lot of people beginning to look and think, you know, biden literally -- i can't imagine how he can campaign in 2024. i think at some point this will cam -- catch up with him. robert kennedy, junior may be a much bigger threat. the american people, when they are as unhappy as they are with biden and the numbers are devastating, they find a way to express themselves. if he is down there in th

party's nomination that the incumbent president has ever debated like ronald reagan challenging gerald fordpened. it always behooves the president who has that offers not doing anything to risk compromising that office, right? >> yeah, absolutely. especially with someone like president biden who his critics have capitalized on resent missteps. for biden and his team, they want to be very careful with their image and how they're ute lightnings that presidential bully pulpulpit. he wants to come off as the incumbent. people like r.f.k. jr. while he's gain traction, biden is handily ahead of him. he wants to come off as the incumbent. him being on stage doesn't make him look like the incumbent. that's part of the strategy for president's reasonings if he decides not to debate. he's essentially the incumbent being the last former republican president in the race. >> thanks, julia. great seeing you again. >> you too, neil. >> neil: all right. they're still looking what could be many months of an unusual interstate 95 around philadelphia. c.b. cotton has more on the collapse and how they play it

. >> greg: gerald ford. >> jessica: yes, mentioned yesterday, we had a president in the wheelchair whoe liked a lot, who revolutionized -- >> greg: you're not making a point. >> jessica: yes -- >> greg: fdr was a democrat. the only examples you are using that we remember our republicans. do you see my point? >> jessica: and you didn't pay any attention to it. you did not care about ronald reagan -- >> greg: "snl" classics get the right >> jesse: weren't even on television in the 80s! jessica, can i play some sound from donald trump and you can react to what he set about this? >> jessica: i guess so, but i have other things to say. >> you can't fall, you just can't fall, no matter what, just can't allow it to happen. i better not allow, especially after saying this, i better not allow it to happen to me. >> is the fbi politicized and doj weaponized? >> but they are being protected and it is and a dual system of government. a dual system of -- you talk about law and order. you can't have law and order in a country where you have such corruption. >> jesse: jessica, you mentioned you wante

which he would have certainly, i believe, been accused, indicted, an probably gone to prison if gerald ford had not given him a pardon. what does it say about equal justice? whatever it says about this particular trial of trump among a number of trump, both people who love trump and hate trump will have to feel the system worked. >> thank you so much for joining us. let's bring in neil, former acting solicitor general and anthony, former director of the justice department's office of public affairs and senior adviser to merrick garland. anthony, i have a question about justice department protocol. garland appointed the special counsel. jack smith. and jack smith by all accounts so far had free reign over this investigation. garland could only get involved and thought it was wildly inappropriate. republicans are attacking the justice department saying this is garland's decision. they're attacking president biden saying this is his special counsel. i'm sure there are discussions in doj about how best to handle this. how not to light the fire any brighter than it is. >> yeah. is there a good w

about a month later, president gerald ford partnered with richard nixon for all the crimes that richard nixon committed during his presidency. and richard nixon then took the rest of his life a free and the scariest man. it was not so easy for bob goldman, a year after president nixon was forced to resign, was convicted in 1975 of conspiracy, obstruction of justice and perjury, three counts of perjury. tonight, mark meadows may be on his way to being charged with those exact crimes or, mark meadows might be a cooperating witness against donald trump, the kind of witness who could become the star witness in both of jack smith's investigation of donald trump. mark meadows was a 16-year-old boy in brandon, florida, attending brandon i school, the day that bob goldman went to prison. there were a sharp politically minded 16 year olds in those days who are very aware of every aspect of bob goldman's crimes. but maybe mark meadows was not one of those kids. maybe mark meadows at 16 was completely oblivious, as maybe most 16-year-old maya bin, to have been to bob. mark meadows appears to have

he ultimately got a pardon from gerald ford. the man who was hand picked to be the vice president after spiro agnew resigned. ford said it was for the good of the country but 9/11 was never held accountable. do you think that set a dangerous precedent that painted presidents as above the law? >> i think it did. as the person who blew up that administration, i had a special interest and i was following it very closely. so i was sort of distressed that ford so easily pardoned nixon. he did it for his own purposes. not for nixon's. it wasn't really an act of grace but his ability to govern because he thought he wouldn't be able to if he was constantly having to respond to criminal inquiries regarding nixon who would then have been on trial. so i think it has left us in this situation we are today where crowds cheer trump who has an indictment. had that been solved 50 years ago, we wouldn't be seeing the same set of reactions. >> after he resigned, in 1977, he told the interviewer david frost. he gave that infamous line. when the pr

ronald reagan in 1976 chal challenging gerald ford never got one with president ford.s to an incumbent president, that party regardless of who ultimately wins the nomination goes down to defeat. do you think that's a possibility here? >> look in 2016, the republicans had so many candidates and it did weaken your candidate. your candidate won. what's really important what we remember here is what the american people need. this is not about parties. political parties should facilitate the practice of democracy. not thwart the practice of democracy. american people need to hear the various candidates. the democratic electorate should be listening to what all -- or both of the challengers of the president have to say as well as the president himself so that the voters can decide. not the party. but the voters can decide who they think the best candidate is to face the republicans in 2024 and to be the best person who would be the president over the next four years. so this is about much bigger than the horse race. this is something much more important than political partie