joining me now to talk about this is the former ambassador to washington, gerard araud.erard, let me ask you first, the reaction of france seems genuinely one of shock, isn't that right? >> well, yes, it was a total astonishment. you know, the minister of defense and foreign affairs of australia were reaffirming the commitment to the contract the 13th of august. suddenly overnight it's denounced. and on top of that, it is denounced after obviously our closest allies plotting behind our back to kick us out of the deal. so you have the closest eyes of the major interests. >> i think the way that washington would portray this, biden officials would, this is a big, strategic play, it's intended to deter china. it's unfortunate we had to do this in the way we did. my question is, was there a reason france could not have been part of the new arrangement, maybe with a reduced contract or even not at all, because the united kingdom didn't seem central to it and yet washington included it. could france have been part of a new contract where the american submarines were used but f

i'm joined now from paris by gerard araud — france's former ambassador to the us from 2014 to 2019.rench foreign minister says that france has been stabbed in the back. as a former ambassador to the united states, would you put it as strongly as that? ~ , , , as that? well, yes. first, if you allow me. i— as that? well, yes. first, if you allow me, i will— as that? well, yes. first, if you allow me, i will complement i as that? well, yes. first, if you i allow me, i will complement what your previous guests said, because the french had nuclear powered submarines, and it's the australians who demand dead actually that we convert our nuclear powered submarines into conventional powered submarines, so it's a crueljoke now that australians are complaining that australians are complaining that we are selling them diesel powered submarines. it was their demand. so all this story has a really, frankly, has a sort of dark side. forthe really, frankly, has a sort of dark side. for the french, really, frankly, has a sort of dark side. forthe french, it really, frankly, has a sort of dark side