you can just say, how did the gfc happen, how did all these people that went to ivy league schools, how could people who have degrees in economics and accounting be staffing documents -- >> what is the easy answer? >> they didn't lose their soul at once, a little bit here, a little push there. >> did you lose your soul completely? >> i think that's hard to say, because i think i got to a point in my life where i was probably about as awful a person as i was capable of being and still walking around, and to say well, i was able to get back to the person my parents seth sent out into the world. that's another journey in itself. >> are all those people on wall street? one little step at a time. >> are you surprised more people on wall street haven't gone to prison since the financial crash? >> yeah, i'm a little bit surprised, but i understand why it happened. i think it's very difficult for the u.s. attorney's office to make these cases, and it's very, a lot of the props were arcane. and a lot of it is the relationship between wall street and the government. they changed laws that allowed