to meet ghazi. i told daniel pearl this and you saw what happened. and i thought jack blease, this is the introduction. i thought for sure ghazi is going to be nasty and scary and it turned out that ghazi actually looked and behaved in many ways like jerry garcia. >> host: kind of raleigh wally. >> guest: bearded, long curls, fake beard, round spectacles and was very jovial and was easy to laugh and was very open and didn't have anything to hide. he was open about his relationship with various jihadi groups and i don't know that he ever knew my family background but nonetheless he opened up to me so that was the basis in fact recently the second half of the book which is my four days and two jihadi camps and different groups and what not and it was based on this relationship with ghazi. >> host: there's several sections in the book. could you read one from the ret mosque and then when you talk about how we all ended. >> guest: so, you know, i'd met ghazi probably half a dozen times, and in the early

. >> guest: the first thing is we were talking last time about abdul aziz ghazi. after he died he'd been my introduction to all of these and after ghazi died i wrote a piece titled farewell my jihadi friend, which was sort of a single off to this guy who helped at a complex time in my life. the article was published in urdo so even though he had been killed there was still this article i could show to various jihadis and say look, i had a role in his life. >> host: let me just say you knew what was going on because you took the trouble to learn urdo so you were not just a typical journalist relying on a translator, you were in the thick of things and knew what was being said. >> guest: right. it became more complex in the northwest province because i didn't speak pashtun zero. i wanted to visit the taliban and swat that had taken over in the summer of 2007 shortly after the red tosk. they started a series of suicide bombings on the government and set up a sort of islamic state in swat. so to get there and needed a sort of introduction and there was a local journal