so -- by gilens. that means hollywood doesn't get the book. [laughter] >> [inaudible] >> yes. i think i've seen that a while ago. >> it's a great show about con artists, but one of the things they try, they sort of make a moral distinction between people that are really greedy or unethical versus just someone that might get brought into kind of swindle. have you seen, or in real life made -- >> right. you mean con men that aren't going to swindle, you know, the retiree on a small pension, they're going to go after the one that is really greedy? >> right. >> that another truism that occ, they only swindle the people who have it coming and that their swindles work by greed and only a greedy person would respond to it. i don't buy it. i think they would swindle anyone that they could, and because the truth is they didn't just appeal to greed. they appealed to a lot of really nice emotions that we should be proud we have including intelligence and kindness. so i think that's a very self-justifying, you have to take that with a grain of salt. um, but they, you know, they consider t