i should also say, he hates his name, gillum. many of his friends call him gill. an old family name. the other name was craighead. the other name was craighead. i told him he could have been craighead ferguson or gillum ferguson. >> you talked about the other universities he could have gotten into. >> i did not want to identify them. i think on the book jacket i say i live in suburban washington d.c. i don't know why i thought i could get away with leaving that ambiguous. our big state university is the university of virginia. he applied to virginia tech and william and mary and a couple of other schools like that. part of the problem with the university of virginia is it has a reputation because of thomas jefferson, and because that beautiful campus is so lovely and historically significant. does have sort of reputation of being something other than university of kentucky or university of illinois, but it is not, really. you get out to the farther reaches of it and you might as well be at kansas university. >> there is a little bit more of you talking about what

so gillum currents change cools to hollow out nations on the rocks will pull spring up in the most unexpected places the river floods off any detail study of it is that will impossible to chart the best route to the rapids. yes all the boat everybody gets out. let's listen up before we gong we need a breather. after our daughter son sam let's have some rest. with half of the journey behind them the team pauses to rest a strain of the rapids has taken its toll. which covered about half of the distance so for another four difficult brackets are still ahead of us so let's get going. the rest is relax on a small flat patch of the bank. when spring comes around it will disappear hundred ten nice ability of water becoming part of the river bed. this place can only be reached in winter time when the water level is in the. we're. all back everybody. now all together. where were you now to concentrate on what you're doing courtside missed out on two strokes. stop talking and look this way. this turn goes in that direction then turns to the sensory. the river demonstrates the full. behavior the rough d

. >> how many colleges did gillum apply to? >> i believe eight.e kids now are applying to 12, 14 schools. >> how many schools did you visit? >> he had the number. i think it was over 10. >> did you go with him every time? >> my job was to drag him. i had not gone along, he would not have gone. >> where did he go? >> we went to uva -- for expense reasons, a lot of parents put together a lever college tours. i talk to one guy who went to comical extremes. for reasons of economy, i would try to piggyback things if i had to go on business trips. i had to go to california, and he went along and saw colleges out there. we had to go to a wedding in chicago, so we saw colleges there. we went to visit friends in new england and saw colleges there. i try to economize as much as possible. you can really get into real money if you want to do a thorough college search picnic'' based on what colleges you went to, which one would have picked? >> i really liked dartmouth, because it is old and new englandy. >> did he? >> no, he hated it. we went on a gorgeous sum