gina haspel can't call you and talk about the job? is that the extent of what your security clearance was for? that's what other cia directors have hinted out, that in some ways it's for current directors to ask former directors their opinion about certain things. >> well, for me it probably means that. that i just can't go into the agency and have conversations with people who may call me up and ask me for my thoughts and views. that has happened in the last couple of months. but for others, former officials on that list, some of them serve on boards of directors that require security clearances because the companies involved deal with classified information. and this can have a very punitive, very financial hit against them. and so now if i were asked to be on a board that required a security clearance, i couldn't. but again giving up my security clearances in order to bring this issue to a head, to me i'm willing to do that. first time in 38 years i have not had a security clearance. i love and respect and admire my former colleagu

maybe it's someone slightly lower level than gina haspel or maybe it's gina haspel herself. calling and saying i want to get your take on what's happening here. >> this is why intelligence officials stay fairly apolitical and fact based when they leave and john brennan has crossed that line by saying the president is treasonous even if that's opinion. in order for our intelligence services to be trusted and be seen as apolitical, there's a line and there are plenty of intelligence officials -- >> so the president is attacking our intelligence services. >> so it's more important than ever -- >> i'm not argue -- i take your point seriously and i don't think it's wrong one, but when you're talking about the intelligence services, you're not going to get very many people inside the intelligence services speaking up for themselves from their positions right now because the president is the president and part of your oath of office is you are -- i mean you are taking an oath of office to the country but you're also going to be in line with the administration. and if the intelligen

as recently as may, mccain opposed the trump administration's nomination of gina haspel as director of the central intelligence agency. haspel is a 33-year cia veteran who was responsible for running a secret cia black site in thailand in 2002, where at least one prisoner was waterboarded and tortured in other ways during her tenure. yet in 1973, upon mccain's release from being a prisoner of war and is returned to the united states, he wrote an article expressing support for president nixon and u.s. bombing of cambodia. after his election to the u.s. senate in 1987, he consistently promoted war and u.s. military intervention abroad, including in the first gulf war, afghanistan, and iraq as well as iran. here is senator mccain joking about bombing iran at a 2007 campaign event during his presidential bid against barack obama. >> bomb iran. bomb bom bomb amy: in 2008, john mccain ran for president vowing to surge troops to iraq. he faced criticism for his choice of alaska governor sarah palin as his running mate. some say paved the way for the election of donald trump. senator mccain wa

gina haspel has put together a very strong team at the cia.n spending her time doing. >> the president's rational is something we've heard before. he talks about, oh, security clearances from former officials gives prestige, money, and gives them different things. you're immediately scoffing. >> it is a red herring. two directions to go here. one, security clearances don't come from the individual. it is not as if i don't know and i can walk in and say, we get a security clearance. i don't have one. i don't need one. it has to be a government sponsor who justified it. >> for example, briefing their successors, having conversations with those who take the positions after them. >> it eases that. it facilitates that. even that is not necessary. you can still have good conversations without it. it is not a money-making endeavor for most people. >> when you look at what's next, what is the next shoe to drop? we've gotten real hints about what it could be, based on who else the president has tweeted about this weekend six times. a guy named bruce or

this decision against brennan, but imagine the morale within these buildings right now, and both gina haspell and the dni trying to encourage their teams to continue working hard in a fashion that doesn't fear retribution. >> and, shawn this removal of clearance on brennan, and the threat to do the same for others, that is punishment. i mean, the president has already said so. but he also said this really isn't to silence them. listen to the president. >> there's no silence. if anything, i'm giving up a bigger voice. many people don't even know who he is and now he has the bigger voice and that's okay with me because i like taking on voices like that. >> so that's his explanation. but is that the logic? >> yes, look, i don't discount the possibility that the president and the administration and his team are using this revocation of security clearances in order to distract from other things that are happening in the news cycle. the problem i have with this is this is an escalation sort of issue. when you revoke the security clearances of people like john brennan and on this list he has, jim cl

and that doesn't mean that dan coates and gina haspel aren't doing their job.russians succeeded because everyone was just playing tradition traditional. and these big organizations don't change that pattern unless they have presidential and, actu. >> general hayden, thank you very much. >> thank you. >>> why cries for impeachment could get louder and more real. >>> i'll speak to john mccain's close friend as america remembers the maverick. >> this is one of the bravest souls our nation has ever produced. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. otezla may cause severe diarrhea,

you're looking up to your leadership, in that case that would be gina haspel, and say, that person interactsw if the person leading me is respectable. gina in my world is remarkably respected. i think the cia is safe. the other thing is intel people, new york -- north korea, iran, they've got a lot of stuff to worry about. the leadership's got to deal with the politics, we in the business side are getting paid by taxpayers to deal with the real world, forget about the president, we'll do our jobs. >> can we talk about mueller, phil? i wonder with mueller if he's going to be interested in him, in the president, admitting that he revoked his clearance over the russia investigation. >> i don't think he is. i looked at what happened today in terms of what both the president did and what rudy giuliani said. why do you care if you're mueller? if rudy giuliani is saying, we're going to load a ton of bricks on you if you don't bring some charges by september, what's rudy going to do? the guy's a bumbling idiot -- >> "the wall street journal" interview, the president said he did it because of the rus

his health care vote, speaking out good gina haspel against much of his party.e again speaks from the heart. what do you think his biggest contribution is? >> two things. one obviously what he's done in the vietnam war can never be discounted because it is so extraordinary what he went through in a way that so many people again can't comprehend end. but then the fighting spirit that he brought to the senate. having worked in the senate, quite often you thought john mccain is such a pain in the neck. and there is a reason for that because he fought tooth and nail on everything. and if you are a republican, time and time again he was willing to stand up to his own party and say no and it could be frustrating. but you knew it was because he was fighting for his state, for the country and doing what ultimately he thought was right. >> any lessons learned that other politicians should know? >> i think there is a big lesson learned, what wire seeing in the arizona senate right right now, where a lot of people on the republican side won't even talk about john mccain. c

to the very end with the appointment of gina haspel, the nomination for her to take over as cia becausef her background in that time period. bill, who do you see in congress right now stepping up on issues affecting our troops at the same level? can anyone replace john mccain there? >> you know, i'm not sure, i worked with him a lot and we both supported the iraq war. then we both saw -- he saw very, very quickly that we didn't have enough troops, that we didn't have a sensible counterinsurgency plan that was going badly. the bush administration didn't want to hear that for three years. we did a bit at the "weekly standard" to make the case for the search and don rumsfeld, swapping him out as the secretary. the bush officials hated that and hated the fact john mccain who had the most credibility as anyone on these issues kept saying it's not working, we're not winning. he supported the war but we're not winning, we're not fighting it right. that took courage taking on his own party, his own president. this is post 9/11. he wasn't with the democrats who wanted to get out and he was a lon

erin, what i fear is the list of people that cia director gina haspel or mike pompeo can go to when they need a decision, i can tell you as someone that looks at classified information every day and the threat picture we face, there are decisions that prior officials made that are still pending today. we want them to have a long list of experts to go to to protect all of us. if you're just cutting the list of people that agree with the president, then i think we're going to have a narrow view of the world and how to protect it. >> brennan was asked what he would do about this today. here's how he responded. >> right now i'm still absorbing the announcement. it is not going to effect my speaking out and my criticisms of mr. trump. i'm going to try to do it in a professional way, but i don't know what recourse there is and so i'll just take things one day at a time. >> you mentioned you're on the cia subcommittee of the intelligence committee of which you are a part. is there anything you can do about it, he can do about it, or is this his own deal, the president is in charge. >> i'm not w

. >>> that while gina haspel is remaining sigh eleventh about the treatment.haspel approved of trump stripping brennan of the security clearance and if she had known about it and advised the president on it in advance, cia spokes men tim barrett told "the daily beast" that the cia does not comment on former security clearance. but former senior intelligence officials signed a let speaking out saying, we feel compelled to respond in the wake of the ill-considered and unprecedented remarks and actions by the white house regarding the removal of john brennan's security clearances. we all agree that the president's actions regarding brennan and the threats of similar actions against other former officials has nothing to do with who should and who should not hold security clearances and everything to do with an attempt to stifle free speech. you don't have to agree with what brennan says, and, again, not all of us do, to agree with his right to say it subject to his obligation to protect classified information. well, this after former navy admiral william mccraven,

i can virtually guarantee that gina haspel, like all her predecessors, reached out to the former directorsf central intelligence to talk to them as she started her job to say what are the things you wish you would have known earlier, what are the mistakes you made that i can avoid early on? those conversations can still happen. she can call in john brennan to her office anytime she pleases. but it's a little bit easier with a security clearance. this isn't about john brennan, it's actually hurting the u.s. government by creating this new -- this new world that is hard to believe in where your political speech affects whether you're able to hold a security clearance. >> and as you put it, that speech is, itself, a constitutionally protected right. i think you put it very well and give us a crash course on some of the issues here. tim, when you look at this, this is also politically an example of the kind of thing that the white house uses to threaten to abuse power and then sometimes it's dismissed as well don't give that attention, it's a distraction, indeed we've dug this up, speaker ryan

and mike pompeo is an extremely capable person over at state, and gina haspel's very professional, knowledgeable person. and secretary of the treasury is first-rate. having said that, the president's reaction to many of these situations, i hate to say this unkindly, borders on fantasy. when it comes to north korea, they're still producing fissile material. they're still producing their icbms, which are not yet fully tested. there is zero chance they're going to denuclearize. they're trying to escape sanctions. they're trying to get us out of south korea. and to some extent the president's public rhetoric is helping them. that's a problem. when it comes to the russians this statement by medvedev was very unsettling. one thing we shouldn't do is overstate the threat from russia. they've got a lot of nukes, a lot of oil. a minor strategic force in terms of naval power, air power. an army that is not a significant threat to western europe. it is to the baltic states, poland. you know, the ukraine. is they're batting way above their weight average. i remind people that the economy of russia is less t

let's go back to may when gina haspel was being nominated to be the cia director, and you know, johnain, has a lot of serious concerns about torture. he said "i believe that the senate should exercise its duty of advice and consent and reject this nominee." he did not say that he was going no vote yes or no, but that was implying that he was not going to be here to vote. on brett kavanaugh, when he was nominated he said "i look forward to the senate fulfilling the critical duty to a fair and thorough confirmation process." not indicating that he would be back to vote on these nominees. >> ed: talk a little bit, you have covered him a long time, i have covered him a long time. a talk about his legacy. he is somebody that you see in the hallways. he likes to crack jokes. he also is a very serious policymaker. particularly on the armed services committee, as you know. the commerce committee where yes, sir, for a long time. this is obviously the republican presidential nominee in 2008. but before his political career, when you think about him, his father, his grandfather, and his childre

becoming president has changed any of that and none of his advisers, not john bolton, not cia director gina haspel or secretary of state and former cia director pompeo have been able to or willing to dull did the razor sharp engs off trump's animosity for the intelligence agencies that protect american national security. quite a stunning indictment of those men and women and their lack of influence. here to help us sift through the day's fireworks, some of our favorite reporters and friends, white house reporters ashley parker, joyce vance, former congresswoman donna edwards and john heilemann is back. tim o'brien, executive editor for bloomberg opinion and author of the book "trump nation." ashley, let me start with you. intelligence community is usually reluctant to wade into domestic politics, viewing their voice as something to preserve for times of war or grave national security crises. i'm told that they view the trump presidency, the encroachment into the intelligence community and their work the disdain they show for their work product, and sort of the obliteration of norms as dire enough

we got alan dulles, richard helms mike pompeo, gina haspel the current cia director. people are far more discrete than what john brennan is doing, wouldn't you agree? congressman, can you hear us? >> been in that position, lead that position you take a lot of things with you and, and you remove yourself quietly in many situations. that is not what we're seeing now. i question really why anyone would still have the clearance. if you need to be brought back in for some form of expertise that can take place. i'm a member of the military. when i leave the military i expect to lose my secret clearance. i'm a member of congress on the intelligence committee with a higher clearance. i expect to lose that when i leave congress. i'm not sure why they still individual to begin with. david: the other thing is, what john brennan himself has said he did with regard to the whole russia investigation. he claimed in front of your committee, the house intel committee, i guess it was about six months ago, it was in may of 2017, he claimed that he was responsible for the whole thing get

gina haspel, for example, as a recent thing. what was the recent fight over, what policy? >> we were talking about things going on in the middle east, specifically, syria. senator mccain wanted to bring that conflict to a halt. also wanted to make sure the united states was able to demonstrate its great influence and might, and do what we could to try to bring that conflict to an end. >> you reference that senator mccain did sometimes pay a political price for being a straight talker. does that sound familiar to you, as somebody who sometimes paid a political price for being a straight talker? with mccain gone, who replaces him, someone who can serve as a check on the president, or a voice as a check on the president? >> great question. we see that senators flake and corker have spoken out, but they're leaving the senate. i'd like to think there are going to be senators now who will be thinking about senator mccain's legacy and what he stood for, and adopt some of the same principled positions and speak truth to power. it is not just the intelligence community. it needs to

to their credit, they have been very rigorous under pompeo, now, under the new leadership of gina haspelertainly dan coats in telling truth to power despite the pressure, despite the threats. this is certainly a chilling effect on other critics, attempt to silence. it's an enemies list. it's actually ironic, first of all, ironies abound, one of the reasons they gave was john brennan's allegedly erratic behavior by a president of the united states who just yesterday was calling an african-american woman, a long time friend and associate of his own, a hire as improbable it was in the white house, a dog. the erratic behavior of john brennan was, i think, most memorably, the day after the helsinki news conference to say it was nothing short of treasonous for donald trump to stand next to vladimir putin and deny the intelligence assessment of all the intelligence agencies that russia had attacked for that very reason. putin acknowledged that day it was to help trump and obviously hurt hillary clinton. >> andrea, when the white house first floated this idea in late july, the white house press

brennan told me in an interview yesterday that gina haspel, the current cia director did not call him and give him a heads up. what are the president's contacts like? how many staff members is he talking to, and are all the orders direct? >> it's really -- depends on the situation, so it doesn't surprise me dan coats was out of the loop. he and trump, this is not a particularly close relationship and i think as we saw on stage when he was, you know, befuddled they invited vladimir putin later in the year. >> skeptical. >> the president relies heavily on two people, john bolton and mike pompeo. he has a very active relationship with sarah huckabee sanders, he'll sit in the private dining room beside the oval office and watch her every day like a theater critic and take -- if she makes a mistake, he'll let her know about it. >> that explains a lot. let me read you some of brennan's op-ed from this morning. director brennan writes, by issuing such a statement, mr. trump is not only -- this about his call on the russians to hack the e-mails and to release them, hillary clinton's e-mails o

behavior and you interpoed out you felt he was lacking in his duties from the cia why not have gina haspel or mike pompeo in the past as director of the cia pull his clearance? >> because the president wanted to do that and it's the president's prognosis tiff-- prerogative to do it. >> you have the president tweeting this morning about the economy and how great things are going, two great days in the dow on thursday and friday. why have this kind of distraction from what would be really good news for the president? is this a smart communication strategy, to give his enemies so much to talk about and so much to bash him about when he could be spending every moment out at the rose garden talking about trade, talking about the economy, talking about jobs? >> he attempts to talk about those things and often times it's not covered on other networks. it is pretty much on this one. at the end of the the president, i don't control the president and you don't control the president and brennan doesn't control the president, and he's a fighter and-- >> let me just. >> mr. rollins, you're a political

may of this year, kelly sadler mocked mccain's illness after he declined to support cia director gina haspelmation process. she said, it didn't matter because he, quote, is dying anyway. sources close to mccain revealed he didn't want the president to attend his funeral. and earlier this month, president trump 150i7bdsigned ae spending bill but failed to mention the senator's name even once during those remarks. and in his recently published book, it's hard to know what to expect from president trump. what's a pose, what's genuine. as in other areas, the character of the president will likely be reflected in the conduct and the policy. that will depend on the restraining effect of his more experienced advisors' counsel and i genuinely hope his growing recognition that leader of the free world is more than an honorific. it is more than the person who possesses it. >>> katty kay, i'm not sure we have seen the president live up to the hope that john mccain had for him. >> no. you know, the heart of this adversarial relationship comes a very different world view. john mccain dedicated his life t

if gina haspel needed to call brennan about something he has the pretty quickly to be able to have thatprocess and whether his security clearance has actually been revoked now. but for what we know he doesn't actually have the ability to do that anymore. the thing is, with john brennan, it is sort of an imperfect example in some ways because of his use of the term treason, and then backing away from it. and also because of some of the history and some of -- not everything that giuliani said in that clip, not that i totally understand, but the talking about the border, and other things, makes it harder to defend john brennan in some ways. if president trump follows through on the threat with the michael haydens or james clappers, then we have this feeling of is this going to have a chilling effect? that problem being if you have information that could lead to stopping some type of terrorist event or something else, but something you think the president of the united states isn't going to like when you come out with it, not necessarily, you know, an open court or anything, but behind clos

you've got gina haspel at the cia. go down the list. they've all told him the same thing.son said, our democracy is in the cross hairs because of russian interference in our elections. everybody in his government says it's the russians. and he's saying, maybe it's the chinese. >> joe, it's almost leike he's desperate for it not to have been the russians who hacked the election and interfered with the election. i don't know why he has such a chip in his shoulder saying it's not the russians and would rather prefer it be really any other country on earth. >> unbelievable. mike barnicle, this is, again, a president who knows it's the russians. everybody in the -- in the administration says it's the russians. the intel agencies warn him it's the russians. the united states military warns him that it's the russians. the intel community warns him that it's the russians. and, again, he goes from a fat guy in jersey to the chinese. this is -- i mean, it's sad and it's pathetic but again, i wonder at what point -- at what point do people who support donald trump say, wait a second.

i'm curious if anybody has asked gina haspel have you had any conversations where john brennan has helpedjohn brennan jewels fired up because is he not going to be able to leverage this to make more money for himself? rachel: no one is calling him for advice. this is the same cia director that oversaw the metastasizing of isis where the actual russian spying happened or meddling in the election happened under his watch. why would nibble -- ed: exactly. what we may be seeing is this trump de rangement syndrome, resist, resist, resist, infecting the national security community. formerly nonpartisan position of cia director. that may explain as well how the governor of new york here, andrew cuomo, somebody who is a very politicianed politician, thinks carefully about what he is going to say. had been thinking about running for president in 2020 out of nowhere this week said. this. >> we're not going to make america great again. it was never that great. [laughter] >> well, he is obviously backpedaling big time. >> clanks of his america was never that great again comment. >> the expression i u