getting a couple of lucky breaks in louisiana one of them is that i went to interview lobbyists ginger sawyerand we had a conversation during which she was extraordinarily for pride about the influence of the industry and how they were able to gain support the support of lawmakers and a sort of layout the details of how they had pushed the bill could push the bill through the legislature in the previous session, and i kept thinking why are you being so forthright with me? .. >>

lobbyist, one of the most powerful lobbyistness the state, certainly -- lobbyists in the state, ginger sawyer, and we lad a lock conversation during which she was extraordinarily forthright about the industry and how they were able to gain support of lawmakers and laid out to me the details of how they had pushed the bill through the legislature in the previous session. and i kept thinking, why are you being to forthright with me? >> host: had these movements when -- i told you i was a reporter and was going write this down, right? >> guest: exactly. i that's what i kept can thinking, and i was taking notes. but its turned out at the end of our interview -- we talked for several hours and when i got the bill and had given my credit card to pick up the tab, he said, you really don't look anything like i expected. i thought you were bald. and i immediately knew what happened. there's another ken silverstein who -- actually he is basined west virginia but writes a lot about the oil industry but writes for a trade industry publication, and he is very, very -- i would say much more sympathetic to