but ginni thomas actually believes this stuff.s opposed to a lot of republicans were just saying it. yamiche: you also had a scoop this week on the oath keepers trial. tell us about it and how all of this is somewhat connected. >> there is a woman who is the general counsel for the oath keepers. she was on the grounds of the capitol that day. she was involved with lawyers for triumph. i have been talking to her for a while. i called up andrew giuliani and it turned out that they were in communication after the election. she puts those two things together. we will find out a lot more in the upcoming trial about this connection. yamiche: the president is trying to navigate all of this. he wants the doj to remain independent. but everyone is talki about it. what are you hearing? >> i think he is very careful to get nowhere near the doj part of it. you have seen him use the january 6 hearings in his messaging. you saw him really ramp up his rhetoric about the threat to democracy. pointing to some of the evidence in the generate six he

ginni thomas matters because this is not just about her. it is about clarence thomas.it is about the supreme court. it is about democracy and above all else, it is about accountability. joining me now -- columnist and author of the book a back to where you came from. also with us -- host of the -- show on sirius xm -- thank you both for joining me. let me start with you. why aren't democrats making more of this ginni thomas issue? why haven't they made more of this issue? why do they always bring a butter knife to a gun fight with the gop? >> weakness. they have chosen civility over law and order and accountability. -- she works at the right wing money and the act of a theme. he works the courts. -- and if the foot was on the -- we know what would've happened. there would've been subpoenas and hearings and nonstop 24/7 clamoring. as soon as we found out those texts that she sent to mark meadows, the qanon texts -- she believes in that. she also sent texts and emails to lawmakers in arizona and also in wisconsin, begging them to overturn the election. and we also know t

. >> i would like to thank a great woman named ginni thomas. do you know ginni thomas?s a great woman. the wife of a great man, justice clarence thomas. her courage and strength -- she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. she didn't say, oh well, i would like not to get involved. of course it was a wonderful election. it was a rigged and stolen election. she did not will thunder pressure like so many others that are weak people and stupid people. >> you bet we know ginni thomas. let us count the ways. the conservative political capitalist -- appeared on a hill on thursday. that was voluntary and not under oath -- to speak with her because of her involvement with the trump efforts to overturn the 2022 presidential election. let that sink in for a moment. the wife of a sitting supreme court justice had to be questioned by the house committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. she had to be questioned because she herself was at the stop the steal rally in washington d. c. on january the 6th. she did not continue on to the capitol that afternoon. she had al

week alone, the panel conducted one of its most high profile -- after months of negotiations, ginni thomasnservative activists and wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, sat down with the committee for nearly four hours behind closed doors for an interview. thomas told investigators that her husband was completely an oh where upper postelection activities, which she downplayed as, quote, minimal. let's give you a quick reminder, thomas exchanged nearly 30 text messages with ex trump chief of staff mark meadows encouraging to tell trump not to concede in the wake of his defeat. she was also in contact with trump lawyer john eastman regarding his fake electors scheme and even personally pressed state lawmakers in wisconsin in arizona to overturn the 2020 election results. so much formidable, i guess, right? nearly two years later, it appears that thomas is only doubling down on election denialism despite everything we have seen since then. here is what chairman bennie thomas had to say about his testimony. >> did she express her belief that the election was still stolen? that she bel

after months of negotiations, ginni thomas, the conservative activists and wife of supreme court justicence thomas, sat down with the committee for nearly four hours behind closed doors for an interview. thomas told investigators that her husband was completely unaware of her postelection activities, which she downplayed as, quote, minimal. let's give you a quick reminder, thomas exchanged nearly 30 text messages with ex trump chief of staff mark meadows encouraging to tell trump not to concede in the wake of his defeat. she was also in contact with trump lawyer john eastman regarding his fake electors scheme and even personally pressed state lawmakers in wisconsin in arizona to overturn the 2020 election results. for so much for minimal, i guess, right? nearly two years later, it appears that thomas is only doubling down on election denialism despite everything we have seen since then. here is what chairman bennie thomas had to say about his testimony. >> did she express her belief that the election was still stolen? that she believes that? >> yes. >> can you characterize what she is no

ginni thomas did. she's conservative royalty because to a certain extent of her husband's. and just think about what it would look like if someone like john eastman or jane thomas were on the judiciary. remember, the rule of law is not an abstraction, it's not the force of gravity, it's a human institution, occupied documents. so far, by and large, it has held, even as donald trump has tested it. there's no guarantee of that. and right now, judge aileen cannon is demonstrating what it looks like when the rule of law doesn't hold. congressman jamie raskin democrat of maryland sits on the january six committee. he served as lead impeachment manager in the trial of donald trump. congressman, from an institutional perspective, i wonder how much you think about the human nature of the institutions that ultimately are the guardrails that hold things in place? >> the rule of law is an edifice that is populated by real human beings. the character of our judges and the character of the people who get involved at every level of government, local, county, state, federal, is of essentia

ginni thomas, wife of clarence thomas testified that the january six committee this past week, about to overturn the 2020 election results. according to committee madam adam schiff, she answered questions but schiff said that he's skeptical of thomas's claim that she does not talk politics with her husband. >> i generally don't talk about my day-to-day activities. that leaves a lot of wiggle room. that generally means there may be exception undated dave means maybe not day-to-day, but maybe in other terms these issues may have been discussed. >> meanwhile the justice department preparing to prosecute one of the leaders of the capitol riots, oath keepers founder stewart rhodes, and for members of his militia go on trial starting tomorrow. they face up to two decades in prison for charges of seditious conspiracy. joining me now is andy cohen, investigative reporter and -- author of the new book, a death on w street, the murder of seth -- congressional reporter for axios and -- what's at stake in the oath keepers trial? >> this is the most high-profile, arguably the most important trial

but you're right, it's remarkable, ginni thomas's role in this, because she does have a husband on thevestigators this week that she didn't talk about it with clarence thomas. we are seeing, obviously, striking marriages differ, who knows how that goes, but to be able to separate that kind of activism on the one hand in that household with justices who remain neutral on the other hand, is obviously interesting, surprising, and perhaps raises questions. >> buyer, but we mention congressman jamie raskin a moment ago. here is what he had to say about ginni thomas. >> it is amazing that you have someone who is married to a supreme court justice who continues to promote the big lie. but, of course that is her absolute first amendment right to do so. anybody can go out and make an idiot out of themselves by claiming the easter bunny is real, that santa claus is real, and donald trump is the real president. >> barb, jeanne's email showed she was involved in the scheme on the state level. she was also winter in touch with trump lawyer john eastman. how does her testimony help the 16 committee

as terrence said, the only reason anyone listens to ginni thomas, or she has access to the white househe has access to state election officials is because of who she is married to. that is it. without justice thomas in her life, she would not be a factor here. she would just be one of the other 61% of the republican party still believing the lies and the conspiracy theories that are skewed by trump. >> i was going to say, you said it so plainly and clearly, there is no way for me to imagine that somebody who messaged the chief of staff at the white house over 30 time messages and emails electors and in various states, that you don't even just him to your husband about that activity? >> come on! >> i'm not biting. >> just flip this. if this were under the obama administration, just flip it for a second, if this was the obama administration, and the wife of a supreme court justice was involved in the benghazi situation, and they were pushing whatever for benghazi, the republicans would be -- >> everybody would be impeached. >> i was there for it, i worked on capitol hill at the time, i w

we know there were massive legal strategies ginni thomas was into.nk we need to take that tactical step and look into it at that time. >> the committee itself, the 1/6 committee, is pretty annoyed at you for writing this book, and for some of your claims. the significance of a reported nine second call from the white house to an insurrectionist. committee members zoloft minh set of your claims that they did not pan out and said, i don't know what mr. riggleman is doing, really. congressman adam schiff, another committee member, said your claims is a real risk to the committee's work and credibility. what do you say to them? >> that's wrong. i would like to know which claims did not pan out. i think, a lot of that, what has to do with that is the data, when you have millions of lines of data, when you are trying to explain it in that type of time it's very difficult to get it across in a way that's understandable to everyone. the committee members have never done anything like this. i probably have more experience doing this than the entire congressio

on thursday, ginni thomas made an appearance on capitol hill, the wife of supreme justice clarence thomase justice committee for nearly five hours as they try to learn what role she may have played in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. for more on this, let's bring in katie benner, pulitzer prize-winning justice department reporter at the new york times. katie, thanks very much for coming back to the sunday show. >> thanks for having me. >> so listen to this from january six committee chairman bennie thompson. on ginni thomas's appearance on thursday. >> she expressed her believe that the election was still stolen. did she believe that? >> yes. >> can you characterize what she is not answering? what she's refusing to answer? >> no. >> so you're saying she still believes 2020 election was stolen? and she told me that? >> so, katie, if ginni thomas is still staying the election was stolen, even after dozens of judges have said it wasn't stolen, isn't that a lie? >> i mean, i don't know that she's lying fits her true belief. i think what's fascinating about ginni thomas's s

i have been railing against ginni thomas. david, and we put this into perspective.ns that the spouse of a sitting supreme court justice won in front of a congressional select committee. they were investigating the insurrection. she had the nerve to still say that she believes in the conspiracy theory. is this the perfect sign of where things are in our democracy right now? >> it is a time stamp. thank you for your kind words. i know that all of us have our hearts with the versus ponders in florida. we are still on these days. the preservation of human life and rescue. i think that the january six committee is on a bit of a raiders edgier. here's what i mean by that. ginni thomas is a player in conservative politics within the beltway. she is not known nationally. within the beltway, there are a dozen of self affirmation conservative societies. they really embarked on the early days of direct mail. they brought up his network of conservative activists around the country. ginni thomas has communications with mark meadows and other leaders of the trump administration.

as terrence said, the only reason anyone listens to ginni thomas, or she has access to the white househe has access to state election officials is because of who she is married to. that is it. without justice thomas in her life, she would not be a factor here. she would just be one of the other 61% of the republican party still believing the lies and the conspiracy theories that are skewed by trump. >> i was going to say, you said it so plainly and clearly, there is no way for me to imagine that somebody who messaged the chief of staff at the white house over 30 time messages and emails electors and in various states, that you don't even just him to your husband about that activity? >> come on! >> i'm not biting. >> just flip this. if this were under the obama administration, just flip it for a second, if this was the obama administration, and the wife of a supreme court justice was involved in the benghazi situation, and they were pushing whatever for benghazi, the republicans would be -- >> everybody would be impeached. >> i was there for it, i worked on capitol hill at the time, i w

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to have the wife of supreme court justice implicated in a multi tentacled scheme to overturn -- ginni thomass her husband, clarence thomas, had no knowledge of her postelection activities, but he doesn't need to know all the details to support the big lie like she does. lest we forget justice thomas was the lone dissenting vote on the supreme court when it rejected trump's efforts to block the release of his presidential records for the january six committee. the wife of a sitting supreme court justice believes the 2020 election was stolen, and we are to believe she never talked about any of that with her husband. who are we kidding? my sunday night panel is back with me. christina, i'll start with you. trump is praising supreme court justice's wife for believing the big lie. it doesn't get much crazier than that. >> now. and the fact that justice thomas still hasn't recused himself should let us know we're in very dangerous territory with the supreme court. it should be an autonomous branch and shouldn't be affected by politics and the way that ginni thomas is clearly -- several states acro

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do you know ginni thomas? she's a great woman.stice clarence thomas, for her tourage and strength. she said she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. she didn't wilt under pressure, like so many others that are weak people and stupid people. >> we have the expert on the supreme court with us and all of this. it strikes me, this just muss be a huge headache if you are chief justice john roberts and you are trying to argue that the court is not political and that the court is not aligned with any politician or political party. it's hard. >> several things happening a day before the new term is going to open, abby. you have statements like that. you have ginni thomas who still denies that the election was fair and that joe biden should be president married to a man sitting on the court, who has already been in the space of casting doubt on whether elections are free and fair. in his own opinions, he suggested there might be fraud. he thinks state legislatures might be going rogue. this idea she might be influencing him or him

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but we did not see that in the case of ginni thomas. it -- i think that there was a feeling that thomas, at the end of the day, was a bit of a sideshow. yes, it is extremely newsworthy, regardless of whether or not ginni thomas is the wife of supreme court justice. that about her efforts to overturn the results of the election, ranging from communicating with john eastman trump's outside personal attorney, about efforts to overturn the election. to contacting lawmakers in arizona, and wisconsin, directly, to try to get them to go along with the fake scheme of electors. but at the end of the day, i think lawmakers viewed it as a distraction from their ultimate narrative. and from the person that they believe is currently responsible for the events of january six. and the person who continues in their view, to be responsible for the continuing and ongoing threats to democracy. and that is the former president. what we saw today, was a laser focused prosecutorial roadmap. that really squarely placed the blame on trump. >> a laser focused p

if i'm questions ginni thomas, that's where i will go.uld see video of her testimony in the next hearing, whenever that gets rescheduled. >> and, obviously, the optics much this doesn't sit well with a lot of people. you have the wife of a supreme court justice, a well known conservative activist who communicated with the executive branch whether it comes to mark meadows and urging him to fight to overturn the 2020 election. are there any policies that could limit justice thomas in any cases related to potentially january 6th or the 2020 election? >> so in our system we leave that up to the individual justices. lower ranking federal judges do have policies that would require them to recuse themselves on anything where they or a close relative had a potential personal interest. those policies do not apply to the supreme court. they are sort of above the law, in a way. it's up to justice thomas. i believe, and i think a lot of other lawyers would agree, he should be recusing himself, removing himself from anything to do with january 6th giv

was the west is the aggr yeah, yte c. >> wt e tu to of the big stories here this week, which was ginni thomasce thomas, testifying before the january 6th committee, and she made a pretty remarkable opening statement, because the big question is, did she have any influence on her husband? obviously as she was doing all that she was doing, trump was vowing to take it to the supreme court. what was your sense of the significance here? >> it's amazing. we've never had anything quite like this. the spouse of the supreme court justice being called up to testify on a remarkable set of facts, you see somebody still to this day embracing a completely false version of events and she said she didn't talk about it with her husband. which is hard to believe. she calls him her best friend. i don't know about her household but in my household we talk about everything. the idea she wouldn't talk about it -- >> the idea that she could influence justice thomas is laughable. >> yeah, well, that's a claim that's going to be hard to sustain. t inten donald trump's behalf, but what's remarkable because of the inve

ever since ginni thomas got linked to the fake electors, they have been quiet about it. ginni thomas, rudy giuliani, they lead that. where is the hearing on the fake electors? thank you. host: before you go, what do you think about the timing of this, coming just a few weeks before the 2022 midterm elections? i think we lost tom. bud, west virginia, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. first thing, we need to look at the whole picture. the first thing that we need to look at is that the capitol police's first line of duty when the capitol is being attacked is to use deadly force. ok, excuse me. but anyway, the security of the capitol was in the hands of nancy pelosi and the mayor, not the president, at that time. i believe it was all set up through the democrats to make it look bad for trump. if you look at some of the videos, the doors was open for some of the protesters. host: did you watch the videos yesterday? what did you think of those efforts by congressional leaders to try to get additional military and police to the capit

we know that the january 6th committee did interview ginni thomas, and that was important.and less on this issue of possible conflicts of interest at the supreme court. the house judiciary committee has looked into that issue more broadly about the need for a binding code of conduct for the supreme court and some members have talked about justice thomas' conduct. it's not that there has been nothing, but there hasn't yet been a full-scale investigation into this. and we think that it's time for that to happen. >> harry, the conservative justices on the united states supreme court believe that there is a crisis in terms of a lack of public trust in the supreme court. just ask them. they give speeches about it all the time. what should the response be to noah's call for more transparency? >> as for the justices, the right response, and it's overdue is a code of conduct. i think at the root of some of the distrust, because thomas can say with some legitimacy look, i don't talk to my wife unless you can show other weiss and not fair to make me recuse because of that, and people

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now katie, what have you heard from the justice department about ginni thomas's testimony.his is not under their investigation but we know that they're closely watching what the committee is doing. >> that department is closely watching what the committee is doing however because that committee interview ginni thomas and i'm in the justice department will follow suit. what's interesting is that ginni thomas told congress that she believes the election was stolen. so therefore believes that what she did was completely in the right. she does not see her behavior wasn't anyway wrong given the fact that again she believes the election was stolen. i don't know how strong a witness that would make or for the justice department if they were investigating whether or not that was wrongdoing. because her intent was to in her view, uphold what she thought was the right thing to do. however, she is for congress a really interesting witness. one because she was at the center of some different conversations between people who are planning the rally, as well as chief of staff mark meadows

emails have also been revealed of ginny thomas, communicating with state officials, for example, about overturning the election. particular state. we could see more of that. meanwhile new developments overnight in the investigation into classified documents found at trump's moral lago resort, according to the new york times security camera footage obtained by investigators shows a long serving aid to trump moving boxes out of a storage room before and after trump received a subpoena for the documents. the washington post reports. it was trump who told a staffer to move the boxes to his residence . abc news has not independently confirmed the reporting, and it's unclear if the employee in the times report is the same employee. trump reportedly directed to move the boxes. in a statement to the washington post, a spokesperson for trump did not address the allegations directly, but accused the justice department of quote, dangerous political interference . brianna thank you and a programming note. abc news will bring you live coverage of today's january 6th hearing, beginning at one p.m. e

she wasn't videotaped but testimony from ginni thomas and the roger stone documentary.put all of this into focus? >> reporter: we know that this is a committee that likes to weave a narrative. each member that's part of the panel is going to be the leader of a certain section of this roughly two-hour hearing we are expecting tomorrow. you are right that it's likely the last investigative hearing. we think they are likely to come back after election day to present their final report, the culmination of the investigative work they have done over the course of the last year plus. but this hearing does provide them a moment to reset the narrative, but also introduce some new information that they have since gotten. the reporting from our colleague julia ainsley, for example, shows they have gotten cooperation from the secret service. maybe not in the way they initially wanted, the key text messages from specific agents on january 5 and 6. but more information around january 6 and the lead-up to it from the view of secret service that can allow them to paint a picture of wha

and the ginni thomas information could be interesting. where she has a bizarre belief that donald trump won the election, and i don't think that gets you far in preventing that to the american people, but if you can show what she was communicating and advancing the scheme, then i think that could be powerful testimony. >> i want to read from your report from politico, and let me read you this. one e-mail between two of trump's lawyers a week before the january 6th attack saying this, a shame you are not in d.c. and could contribute to violation of the emoluments clause. what do you make of this, barb? >> i think there's two ways to look at these. one is the superficial lawyer where trump lawyers were laughing at the role he played in, you know, violating emoluments clauses and other kinds of aspects of the constitution, but i think the more important takeaway here is this demonstrates there are more e-mails that have not been received by the committee, so what is it that john eastman held back? he held these back, and what else did he hol

. >> jill, ginni thomas, the wife of justice clarence thomas, apparently total 16 committee that shes the 2020 election was stolen. what do her actions tell us about the power of donald trump 's big lie? >> it tells us what we already know. it is powerful, and that there are at least 29% of americans who actually believe his lie despite the absence of one shred of evidence. you would expect that someone who is in the position that ginni thomas's, who is educated the way she is, would be able to understand the importance of facts, the importance of evidence, and would have already come to the conclusion that there is no support. she of all people should be able to see that more than 60 courts have turned out this accusation that there was any fraud involved. that should have influenced her. of course, it raises the very significant issue of what should justice thomas be doing. he is a lone dissent in a case that involved the documents, and he should not be deciding any cases. her position, her contact with the white house, her contact with legislators in arizona should bar him from ma

feel the difference with downy. >> i would like to thank a great woman named ginni thomas.tion was stolen. she didn't say, oh well i don't want to get involved. >> so, that was the former president. thanking ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence time is at his rally last night. but only after she appeared before the january six committee this week and repeated election lies once again. she's not the only one doing so. in fact there's 17 candidates across this country, running for positions that had elections that denied the 2020 -- that monitors that voting rights around the country. but summarizations are fighting back. and citizens united, and say fixable and fair elections announcing a seven figure -- michigan and nevada. the president tiffany mueller says this, secretary of state's are supposed to ensure safe and accessible elections. but instead we have extreme maga candidates on the ballot focused on culture wars, rigging elections for their political allies, and radical attacks on our freedoms like ending women's right to make their own health care dec

perhaps no single person better represents the -- ginni thomas.ls said that there are historically low views of the court, with, a poll from gallup, just 40%. as the spouse of via -- about her role in trying to overturn a free and fair election. one case in election is getting a lot of attention, and it shed. some people have been sounding the alarm of more versus harper for months now, they believe it could be a very real threat to our democracy. cases all about who has final say in election related issues. one person who's been focused on it from months is ian middle house. arceneaux correspondent for fox news reports on the supreme court. thanks for joining me on the eve of a new term, because we tomorrow. ian, you and i met on our show a few months ago. we talked about more. you emphasize the importance of this case. let's start with the basics, if you don't mind. can you quickly lay out for our viewers, what more versus harper is all about, and why it's so important to the future of democracy. >> sure. most states, their governments look a lo

and the former president praising ginni thomas and promoting the big election lie adorably last night in michigan. he's got his faithful singing from the same song sheet. >> -- donald trump's that were at mar-a-lago. do you think they were planted? >> i believe so, the way they're out to get him. >> our friends are good liars join us ahead this hour with their unique approach to finding out what the -- really believe. wait until you hear what one woman says, is coming this halloween. let's head back to florida everybody, the death toll from the hurricane continues to climb. 85 people now pronounced ed, have been confirmed all but for those in the state of florida. the president announcing today that he will travel to the state on wednesday after his trip to puerto rico. were 25 people were killed after hurricane fiona. efforts remain underway to help residents of florida's pine island, who were left stranded after the only bridge that was critically damaged collapsed. and bc's liz mclaughlin is in fort myers beach covering this. les, great to talk to you once again. folks now beginnin

i want to talk a little bit about ginni thomas, if we can, and some of her testimony.benny thompson essentially saying that they will only use her testimony -- i think they said it is something of merit. what are we learning of our testimony, other than the headline, which is, of course, she still believes the 2020 election was stolen. >> yeah, look, the january 6th committee came out in that interview with ginni thomas, they really -- i don't think we saw anything new about her role in the efforts to kind of obstruct the certification on january 6th. whether she had been talking about efforts to overturn the election with her husband. i gather that some of the responses were not as illuminating as the committee had hoped. so i think the committee is at a junction here isn't it. how much do they want to go after a wife of supreme court justice, especially when it is so politically charged. when she doesn't seem to have played such a large role in the narrative leading up to january 6th. i think it is more likely that at the upcoming hearing the committee focuses on lik

ments well, we interviewed ginni, much less time than justice thomas and she helped tell his story.talks about meeting her, marrying her and what she means to him. he calls her a gift from god. i think they're very close. and i think that the confirmation battle, the very contentious confirmation battle, they were not married that long, pulled them together to go through something like that together and i think that that's made them one, as she says. >> michael says he in the book addressed his first marriage to kathy and his son jamal. >> i think a little bit. i pressed him and he did not want to speak much about it. so, he spoke a little about it, we tell about it. but he doesn't speak much. as a result of their marriage, they had a child, a son and she wanted him to raise the child and he raised his son as a single person with not a huge salary in washington in the '80s, a very tough thing to do. >> is this your first book? >> it's my first book. i'm really a filmmaker and i've been making films for decade. over 14, 15 films almost all of them nationally on pbs which we're gratef

>> it remains to be seen exactly how they will deploy ginni thomas' testimony.nterview, the committee that weren't recorded, you'll have a staff member or committee attorney reading out part of the interview. at the same time, committee members that i talked to didn't really seem to think that they actually gathered that many new gleans or information from ginni thomas. the chairman told us recently that what she told them was fairly typical of what a lot of people who came to the capitol on january 6th or involved in denialism on january 6th thought. that being that they thought there were issues with the election and that motivated them in some ways to join in something else. as we saw that she did in trying to message officials to try to contest the election results. >> so all of this, obviously, could be an important motivator in getting democrats to the polls. we have seen polls that show that there is a lot of concern that they see trump republicans as a threat to a whole range of their rights. you wrote earlier this week about showing up in ads, and that

we have had so many questions about the documentary that follows roger stone, ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. what do you think could be news we hear later today? guest: the committee said yesterday, and in my reporting over the previous weeks, they want to step back and take a wider look at threats to democracy as a whole in today's hearing. they want to chart how a lot of the ideas and strategies about overturning the 2020 election started in election day, 2020 20, then, progress through january 6 and continues now past january 6. in order to illustrate that, they want to use several different pieces of evidence. they will rely on six to eight minutes of documentary film evidence shot by a danish film crew that followed roger stone in the days and weeks leading up to election day and around january 6. they want to bring in people like michael flynn, trumps former national security advisor that was involved in this contentious 18th of december 2020 meeting where the participants were talking about seizing voting machines. they also want to focus on p

but what chairman thompson has said, we could likely see ginni thomas as well as documentary footage,the last hearing before election day, so the indelible image for voters and likely going forward, the last investigative hearing, the fact finding, the presenting from the committee, before they release their final report which is really the culmination of all of this work. >> thank you. >>> to the january 6th criminal trial, that is happening right now in washington, and a former oath keeper just finishing testifying, talking about the inner workings of the far right militia group, pulling back the curt therein, talking about potential connections to former staff members around former president trump. earlier today, this witness, john zimmerman, told the jury that the founder of the oath keepers, remember, one of defendants charged with seditious conspiracy, that really serious charge, claimed to have spoke within the secret service agent, a secret service agent before the rally with president trump in 2020. ken dilanian has more and talk about the take-aways and more on the secret se

that's i think an inspiring thing for all of us whatever our politics . >> what's the role of ginni thomas in his life. >> we interviewed ginni. she really helped tell his story but he talks about marrying her and what she means to him and he calls her a gift from godand i think they are very close . i think that the confirmation battle, contentious confirmation battle they were not married that long pull them together to have to go through something like that together. i think that that made them one as shesaid . >> he in the book addressed his first marriage and his son jamaal. >> he references it a little bit. you can see in the film, i pressed him and he did not want to speak much about it so he speaks a little about it and we tell about it but he doesn't speak much. i think as a result of that marriage they had a child and she wanted him to raise the child and he raised his son as a asingle parent with not a huge salary in the 80s, not easy thing to do is this our first book? >> my first book, i'm a film maker and i've been making films for decades and we made 14, 15 films. almost all

and then again, you know, there's the question we just awe ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, go in and give evidence, do an interview with the committee. will we hear any of that? >> why do >> where do you think the committee goes from here? >> we are still waiting to see. is there a formal invite for mike pence or donald trump? there's the question of criminal referrals. i talked to multiple sources familiar with the committee's work last night. they told me the committee is still doing interviews. they are going through evidence. i'm told there could be more hearings yet to come. >> jamie, thank you so much for sharing your reporting. no one works harder here in washington, d.c. thank you very much. >>> democratic congressmwoman i joining me now. what will you listen for? >> i think it's great to see you, and i think jamie is right. this committee is being incredibly thorough. they are not going to leave anything on the table. i think that they are going through methodically every single person and more and more are appearing as people see courage in other

i really can't wait to talk to about ginni thomas. she claims her efforts to over come the election never came up in conversation with her husband. let me be the first to say, you don't believe you. who believes that they were talking about. this what is your take? >> extremely hard to believe, tiffany, particularly when she was texting mark meadows in the context of urging him to contest in overturn the results of the presidential election, and this very tax, she was talking about the conversations i'm having with my quote best friend, reporting that is determined to describe her husband supreme court justice clarence thomas. do any of us believe that she was not involved in conversations with her best friend, her husband, about our efforts to overturn the election, very hard to believe as their objective proof that can be introduced to the january six committee that she was lying about that? maybe, maybe not. what i will say tiffany, there is proof that i think puts the lie to her statements to the j six committee about her claim th

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one of the things that the poison fruit at the center of all this is as we've learned more about ginni thomasll accounting of clarence thomas's role on those cases that he's ruled on where he now seems to have been obviously conflicted. we had -- there's been so much news around all of this. now have an understanding about her. but at the time when we learned about her role at the outset, the question was whether clarence thomas should recuse himself from any related cases. this would not necessarily be one of them. maybe it would be. maybe it wouldn't be. i'm not sure what the standard would be. but i don't know if people feel it's a settled matter. i don't feel that people are comfortable with what we know about her role and how little we know about how her role might have affected his decisions then and now. >> yeah. john, that's a good point. he does have this -- i think there are three decisions. one, he's the only one that dissents that the congressional probe receiving records and documents. and that's how we learn, that's how we see as a public ginni thomas's text threads with mark me

additional hearing by some kind, and it will be part of the proof that is written from the likes of ginni thomasd others. >> we may do another hearing , where we talk about our findings and recommendations in terms of protecting the country going forward. i think that they would expect that the report would be a traditional report, in the sense would be a report on paper. so, it would be a living report online, as well, in which he will have it was the transcripts that you can peruse. so, a lot of information that we couldn't get to illicit, because we only have so many hearings, and we gathered a mountain of evidence. you will hear, either released prior to our report in discreet pieces, or, you will hear as a part of our report. >> congressman, was this the last hearing? >> i do not know, for sure. i had hoped that we would do a public hearing, of some kind. to go over these are the findings that we have made, these are recommendations, and we are going to be discussing that there would be criminal referrals, and we will be reaching a decision on that. i don't know whether we will make those a

you had people like ginni thomas. you had activists.dividuals that were conducting those bizarre cyber investigations right and doing the briefings about interference of the election all going to the text messages and still you had 139 of those in the house of representatives. as a former member of congress, i've been known to defend the constitution, i find it abhorrent we're still going down this rabbit hole. it's getting worse. it's in the data. this is now what's believed. this is a fantasy. i said before a lot of these individuals thought lord of the rings was a documentary. that's a real issue. if you have those people actually in the house or in the senate or in the executive making policy. we don't want the lunatics running the asylum. that's the shocking thing. not just the criminal stuff. you really want that kind of crazy permeating every level of the gop. i think that's why it's so important to have these hearings. >> absolutely. let me play one more clip from michael fanone from last night. >> what did shock me was the leve