giuliani: thank you. mr. baker: please join me in thanking mayor giuliani. thank you very much indeed. that was fascinating. we're going to be hearing more about these topics over the next few years, next few weeks certainly. moving right along. we're a little bit delayed. this is a fascinating conversation. we have another equally fascinating conversation to come right now. every president, successful presidential campaign has an architect. famously president obama had david axelrod. president george w. bush, of course, had carl roving, the architect, as even -- karl rove, the architect as he's known, most people in the political business believe our next guest was very much the architect of the recent presidential election success of donald trump. so, we are looking forward to a very interesting conversation about that and about the next four years. ladies and gentlemen, please welcome kellyanne conway, now special advisor to the transition team, and my colleague, jerry, from the "wall street journal." ms. conway: thank you very much. [applause] >> thank y

with giuliani, by the way, what's happened in washington where you've got rudy giuliani shooting offd you've got this kris kobach guy shooting off his mouth and then this general claiming that he was offered a job for defense secretary, which i don't know if that's even true or not. and then going to the press. what's wrong with these people? >> it's strange. >> what a breach of protocol. let's talk about keane and giuliani. we're talking about the breech of protocol here. >> maybe donald's way of tweeting things out we've come to a new age. gosh, in the old age you never breathe a word of any of that stuff. >> it's possible they all -- >> what would they gain? >> credit for having offered the job. >> his wife just passed away. married for 50 years. that has really taken him out of any kind of consideration for public office. he's told that to friends and now said it publicly in the last few days. >> was he offered the job though? >> he was in serious consideration. >> trump has a way of talking to you and making you feel like he's saying something that he really isn't. that's part o

the pre-giuliani new york city and the post-giuliani new york city, we've seen giuliani's capacity for leadership. he has the ear of the president-elect. he may have difficulty though going through a confirmation process with regard to his businesses, his speaking fees, and his foreign entanglements as they're being described in the newspaper though. but the blind dismissal of rudy giuliani as somebody who is unqualified to serve doesn't strike me as right because a lot of the people doing the dismissing have 1/10 the governing record that rude bring giuliani does. >> there you have it. steve schmidt doing new jersey proud. >>> up next, newly discovered audio from 2011 painting an ugly picture of donald trump's chief strategist. >> you know, they wouldn't be a bunch of dykes that came from the seven sisters school up in new england. and, you know, that drives the left insane and that's why they hate these women. >> you heard that right. yup, that was steve bannon. a democratic senator leading the call for donald trump to fire mr. bannon joins me next. the decision to ride on and save m

mayor giuliani: donald trump. i love that.hat's exactly what i did when i became the -- mayor of new york. i surrounded myself with people who disagreed with each other. il's thought it was a really bad idea to surround myself with people who completely agreed with each other because i would never hear the other side of the argument. donald trump is an extraordinarily smart man. exposing him to different viewpoints is the best thing we can do. it's exactly what obama didn't do, although he said he was going to do it because he had read "team of rivals." all he did was put in a bunch of people who never had a job before and got no advice from business. i know some of the people in his business council who used to complain to me we only met once. we met one time. and they quit. instead, you are going to see a president who exposes himself, in the case of reince priebus and steve bannon. of course i have different viewpoints. i saw them for three-month and were complete teammates. they had different point of use. they talked them

giuliani: one never knows.e intowant to that, some of the possibilities of the truck administration. but i would like to start if i may, i would like you to give a sense of what the immediate agenda is for the trump presidency. fascinating this election campaign in which president-elect trump one in large part by tapping into this very populist sentiment that is out there in the country. he won as a republican and you have a republican congress. how is that going to play itself out? how is the populist moment, the populist insurgency that has driven president-elect trump and the republicans in congress, how is that going to work out? i think you're going to see very much the policies he talked about. i don't think that is the hard part. i and elegiac the selection -- this relate -- election to win and rejection -- theew jackson defeated revolutionary americans right , and all ofs junior a sudden the american people had had enough of the elite core and decided we needed to have someone who represented us, meanin

giuliani and bolton are similar.has a more extensive khmer leading background with regard to the middle east. >> other names we've heard. newt gingrich, richard haass, counsel on foreign relations. your colleague, bob corker, quickly give me your thoughts on them. >> any of them would be better than giuliani or bolton. i know bob corker well. he's not in exactly the same place i am on foreign policy but i would call him a realist, a reasonable person. i would call him a person who would seek peace as a first option rather than war. a steady hand. somebody who has, you know is thoughtful and so, yeah. corker would be way better than either giuliani or bolton, and if they feel they have to give giuliani a position, give him a position that doesn't put him in direct conflict with everything that trump has said. he could be somewhere, but just don't put him in a position that would be in direct conflict to donald trump saying 1,000 times on the campaign trail he was against the iraq war. >> we've heard potential intellig

so i think that would be a bit of an odd job for mayor rudy giuliani.s deep experience in homeland security. he understands how the intelligence agencies fit together from his time as mayor. it's a mixed picture. but i think the initial reaction is probably right, andrea. >> we already have controversial choices in the national security sector. let's talk about michael flynn. admired in his combat roles and as a defense intelligence analyst. also came into conflict, was removed as head of the intelligence agency. now in a nonconfirmable post. he's the national security adviser. >> he s. mike flynn worked for me in afghanistan. he was a spush tactical intelligence chief. he led the intelligence fight in afghanistan for us. before that he'd done similarly exceptionally good work intact call intelligence in iraq working for general mckristal. he's well known in the flag and general officer community. can he step up to the strategic level when he has made forays in that direction talking recently about islam as a political entity, not a religion. it's been

can you defend giuliani? >> i think that language is not necessary when we're talking about protesters as a whole. he's clearly referring specifically to those that have been destroying property, vandalizing property and being more violent but as a whole -- >> what if it's not as a whole. is that language okay period? >> i don't think using that type of language with someone exercising their right to free speech is the right way to go about it. clearly understandably they're frustrated, their candidate of choice won the popular vote but didn't win the election and they're frustrated and i support as donald trump has supported their right to exercise their free speech. at the end of the day we understand these protesters are paid by those on the left to organize and speak, donald trump has -- >> not sure they're paid. where are you going with that? >> the point is these are professional protesters that are throughout pussing a message of anti-trump. >> hang on, hang on. >> i think alice knows -- >> i want to h

drew griffin tonight has more. >> reporter: rudy giuliani wants to be secretary of state and rudy giuliani thinks he's better than the other choices. yes, someone asked. >> anyone better? >> maybe me. i don't know. >> he is direct, an unabashed supporter of donald trump and not afraid to repeat and double down on the rhetoric that left no doubt where the president elect stands on the issues. >> islamic extremistis terroris, you know who you are and we're coming to get you. >> his temperament is coming in to question. so are his business ties across the globe. not a direct comparison because rudy giuliani was a private citizen, but the same kind of ties that rudy giuliani found problematic when he labelled clinton foundation and secretary of state clinton as engaging in a play pay to play scheme. >> it is a racketeering enterprise. >> turning the state department for a play for pay operation. >> reporter: he rose to national prominence on september 11th, 2001 and became known as america's mayor but the fame failed to catapult him to a higher political office, despite running for president i

then there's former new york mayor rudy giuliani, reportedly the front-runner. giuliani is making it clear he'd like the job. >> now you're being considered for important jobs, the one i hear most often is secretary of state. >> i have. >> can you tell us about them? >> they're between him and me. since i left mayor -- this is a rough estimate -- i've been in 80 countries with, 150 different foreign trips. i've been all over the world. >> i know you have close friends in israel. >> honorary knight hood from great britain. >> prime minister netanyahu has been my friend -- personal friend for 25 years. i never go to israel without and i feel i can call him that, and i know the world. >> well, giuliani or bolton might face opposition from those who thought the iraq war was a disaster. would likely oppose either of those two gentlemen and he's joining us right now. great to have you on senator rand paul. i was one of those who thought you would win this whole thing and i was wrong. >> you were just a little bit off. >> i think the country is ready from freedom from

rudy giuliani was an early backer of donald trump. and part of any transition is rewarding those people who have been loyal, whether it's -- >> that's right. >> good or not. >> there is nothing unusual here about what's going on. donald trump is in the moment of putting his stamp on the government of the united states. it's going to be a trump government. that's the way it works. the old saying from the andrew jackson days goes, to the winner goes the spoils. this is how it works. >> what do you make of kushner, the stories that he's at center of a lot of this infighting, that some people describe things as a knife fight, clearly a purging of chris christie. >> somebody is putting that out too. i never met jared kushner. i hate going after family. i don't. kids are impressive. i'm sure the son-in-law is impressive. they're not children but adult children who are now assuming real power and influence. i suppose that makes him a target. i'm not ready to cast stones at him. this is clearly coming from inside trump land. people are attack

i don't know. >> but giuliani may not be a lock. son-in-law transition officials worry about his past business dealings overseas and bolton could put trump in an odd position, strong supporter of the iraq war which trump insisted he opposed. >> does everybody believe me? i was against going into iraq. >> you want to have a diplomat in charge of diplomacy. you don't want a bomb thrower. >> reporter: inside the transition team, one source describes a knife fight as high-level adviser former congressman and cnn contributor mike rogers has stepped down al with a slue of officials who worked for the oust fd chairman new jersey governor chris christie. one bush administrator tweeted you should stay away. they're angry, airing gant screaming you lost. you should st will be ugly. >> i don't particularly want to work inside the government. >> breitbart news exec of chief strategist, accusing the president-elect of putting a white nationalist in the white wing. >> bigotry is bad for business. >> after crit is sizing trump for using racist lan

he has called giuliani, said giuliani will have a stiff uphill climb. what do you say to rand paul? >> you can put the republicans in a very small car who is going to follow rand paul's advice when it comes to national security. he is my friend, he's a libertarian, he's an outlier. overwhelming majority of republican senators have the utmost respect for rudy giuliani. he led the nation and new york through 9/11. he's a citizen of the world, eminently qualified. john bolton was u.n. ambassador under president bush. he has been my friend for 20 years. he's a reformer. he would turn the state department upside down and make it work better. he knows where the bodies are buried in the u.n. and we see the world very similar. i think overwhelming majority of republicans would support both candidates and democrats would, too. i would tell my democratic friends, i voted for virtually every cabinet appointment of president obama and you will never convince me that rudy giuliani and john bolton are not qualified to serve at this level so i'm confident there will be democratic support, bipartis

>> rudolph giuliani wants to be secretary of state and rudolph giuliani thinks he is better than theer choices. yes. someone asked. >> is there anybody better? >> maybe me. i don't know. >> he is direct. he is an unabashed supporter of donald trump and not afraid to repeat and even double down on the kind of rhetoric that left no doubt where the president-elect stands on the issues. >> islamist extremist terrorists. you know who you are! and we're coming to get you. >> giuliani's temperament for the job is coming into question. but so are his many business ties across the globe. though not a direct comparison, because rudolph giuliani was a private citizen. they are the same kinds of ties that rudolph giuliani found problematic when he labeled the clinton foundation and secretary of state hillary clinton as engaging in a pay to play scheme run out of the department of state. >> the clinton foundation to me is a racketeering enterprise. >> turning the state department into a pay or the play operation. >> he rose to national prom negligence on september 11, 2001. he became known as ame

how would rudy giuliani do as america's top diplomat? >> i think we have no idea and that's the scary part. you know, we've had condoleezza rice and john kerry, people with very deep national security and foreign policy backgrounds who knew people all over the world. >> madeleine albright. >> madeleine albright. could not forget my partner this business, madeleine albright and also working for her as secretary of state, just people with incredible depth and rudy giuliani has had a very active business practice and legal practice, all kinds of conflicts of interests which would have to get resolved because he's worked for foreign governments which is actually unusual, actually, and he'd have to recuse himself and the office of ethics would have quite a bit to say of him moving forward. >> when you look back at henry kissinger, james baker, this was bob corker's foreign relations chair on "morning joe" this morning who was thought to be in the running for secretary of state. >> i think most people would have an interest. at the same time,

that doesn't mean that rudy giuliani would not be confirmed.does not mean he would not make it through the process. it could just set yourself up for a bloody fight. and maybe that's not the first thing you want to do when you take the white house. >> i heard rudy giuliani, when his name came up, or senator rand paul spoke with me earlier today, made it clear he's going to vote against it. potentially he could try to block that nomination. >> you know, look, other people might do the same on the democratic side. look, somebody like -- i mean, that's a perfect example of no matter who you put in there, no matter who is in the white house, you are going to have senators like rand paul on the republican side and maybe even a bernie sanders on the democratic side who used to do this from time to time, against president obama's nominees, will continue to do so. >>> stay with us. don't go to far away. check out the first-ever book from cnn politics called "unprecedented, the election that changed everything." in stores starting december 6th. preorder

so if rudy giuliani wants a job like second, it could be his. at the same time, you'll siemens and other people who have been through this process in washington before say now to the president-elect is we really need to dig through their background. we can't just take loyalty as the number one qualification. we have to make sure this person can get confirmed and in most administrations you have one or more people who get nominated and have to pull back because of something that comes up during the vetting process. >> howard, we know transitions are messy even though we know president obama has talked highly about going from bush 43 to his administration. that said, when you hear words like "knife fight," "game of thrones" in terms of decision making and lack thereof, confusing buffoonery, does that worry you? >> not especially. this is the toing and froeing of a transition. transitions are by definition challenging and difficult and i think everybody is sitting back and enjoying the kind of palace intrigue that's going on right now but fundament

rudolph giuliani for secretary of state. would you confirm? >> first of all, i find it under believably iron pick donald trump who spent a good part of the campaign trying on convince people that he was against the iraq war is considering people like rudolph giuliani and john bolten who were some of the primary cheerleaders of the iraq war and to this day don't admit that it was a mistake. if donald trump will nominate someone like rudolph giuliani who has no experience in foreign policy, or somebody like john bolten who is determined to invade no countries. who has learned nothing from our failure in iraq and afghanistan, i don't think many will get many democratic votes at all of right now it appears that donald trump is putting loyalty to him ahead of the security of the nation. the jock of secretary of state is neighbor most important that he can fill. it is really a matter of life and death for people in ukraine, for people in east asia, for people in the united states. by putting a political supporter, a crony from the campaign in that p

are you nervous about giuliani? >> i'm not nervous about giuliani, no. i think what you're saying -- >> because he got a lot of money. >> not because he has a lot of money but what you're saying is going to taint anything from him becoming anything -- >> let me tell you more. >> how can he get it if he gets money from terror groups? >> let me add more to this so you have the whole picture. >> he got money from qatar. millions. millions from venezuela. our sworn enemy and then money from a terror group. >> a lot less. giuliani and others reportedly paid just 25,000 to 40,000 to speak to that group. >> the terror group only paid $40,000. you say terrorists gave him a deal. a terrorist discount? >> he wanted the bar filled. a number of high profile former u.s. officials have spoken as well including former u.n. ambassador john bolton and former dnc chair howard dean. the treasury department launched a probe into the legality of former officials being paid by that group while on the state department's terror list. seems like a conflict. >> they're probing th

giuliani never said he ever heard about it from live employees. joining me now is mayor giuliani.hank you so much for coming on. i'm trying to figure out the time line here. according to james comey, the fbi director, he didn't get this information about these e-mails in anthony weiner's laptop until thursday. you were talking on wednesday, the day before, about this thing coming. how did you get a 24-hour -- >> no. no. >> you had a 24-hour jump on comey. >> i'm not a prophet. i'm not talking about these things coming. what i was talking about, chris, was the advertising we're doing this weekend. we have been debating -- >> you were teasing with that anchor woman that you had an advertising plan? you sounded like you had something really good ready to come. >> chris, do you want to hear my answer? >> i want to hear -- yeah. >> what we were talking about was i've been working on a speech and i've been working on a presentation where he was going to buy a lot of time at the very end to lay out his message. we had about four different ways we were going to do it. that's what i was ta

so it's not just giuliani. my piece is also largely about jack calstrom, who is the head of the fbi office in new york and he has said repeatedly on fox that he not only talked to active agents but he talked to agents involved in the clinton case. so there's no question but that they're trying to really reverse the words they've been saying. they've been bragging about it. in fact, calstrom in particular is put on fox precisely because they think he's talking to agents in the case. megyn kelly when she introduces him -- excuse me -- as i know you're talking to agents involved in the case. so, look, now they're trying -- i don't know why these guys who are experienced law enforcement people would go on television as they have been for months saying that they were talking to agents when they know rudy helped draw up the guidelines in the justice department after watergate in the 70s to prevent these agents from talking to political figures like himself. but they're certainly aware of it but they callously disrega

why wouldn't rudy giuliani want that? joining me right now communications director for democracy of america. and ceo of american majority ned ryan, and good to see all you guys. we'll get to that in a second. i think rudy giuliani has the background, the qualifications to really perform in that capacity and we need someone with the background to actually really be able to do the best possible job in homeland security but first let me ask you about, ned ryan, this mitt romney thing, general petraeus. do you think there is a chance the general can get it? everybody is so up in arms about mitt romney that it become as very difficult task for him to be able to give it to romney at this point? >> i think so. first of all, kellyanne appearing on tv was no mistake. it is not by chance it was on tv. she had clearance at some level to go on to express her feelings what is taking place. she made very valid point. there is significant revolt on the grassroots with mitt romney as secretary of state. romney was going out of his way to

donald trump and rudy giuliani. find any compatibility between these candidates for secretary of state? >> obviously as you pointed out, candidate romney had a different view of rush why. when i work on the transition, people are not chosen based on a litmus test and what the views it was a much more personal relationship with the president. and then we duked it out in the administration. i suspect it will be a similar process here. that is enormously powerful. 16 agencies. >> well, if he loses the musical chairs game at the state department, he has been very loyal to president-elect trump. they have to find a place for him and that process happens in transitions all the time. i would say and the dni, they have a different job in the inner agency process. they are not supposed to be making policy. it's a different kind of job. they are making policy or the head of the dni, that might be a better place for them. if president-elect trump decides he is not the right fit. >> it has been a career military career diplomat

fox news confirms rudy giuliani is a topic for secretary of state.ments. good morning i am a lauren simonetti. nicole: good morning i have sent seven. egg sac surgery consented to blue-chip index up another 21-point and doubtless a record high. u.s. stock market futures this morning been out there as once again. dow futures at 22. s&p futures up by the lauren: and a lauren: and asia, the nikkei has risen 9% since the u.s. election last tuesday. check that out. the shanghai composite down a 10th of 1%. nicole: oil prices on the rise of 2% overnight on renewed hopes of an opec production cut. oil 4445 a barrel. lauren: also tracking rising bond yields as bond investors expect a shame at donald trump's economic policies will push inflation higher. the other in the 10 year treasury at 2.19%. nicole: facebook and google want to ban takes this from their website. lauren: or tries to get millennial synods the subcompact eco-sport. nicole: a thrilling comeback victory for the new york giants of the cincinnati bengals. all the highlights for you. lauren: 5:31

or a bolton, i think giuliani and bolton are out there on the extreme. i don't think they're very diplomatic, and i think you want the chief diplomat to be diplomatic. bolton might be better as a secretary of war, but he's certainly not a diplomat or someone who acts in a diplomatic way or thin might be an alternative to war. >> dickerson: you have any of your own candidates you would put forward? >> i'm afraid i don't get to pick. i wish i got to pick. but they have said in the mix, bob corker was in the mix. i find him to be very reasonable, very knowledgeable with foreign affairs as head of the foreign relations committee. i think he's interacted with many of our foreign leaders. i think that's what you want as a reasonable, calming hand at the state department. you don't want someone throwing bombs or advocating regime change. both bolton and giuliani have iran, and that doesn't sound like diplomacy. that sounds like war. >> dickerson: right. have you been contacted by anybody in the trump orbit to say, to address your concerns? >> well, we have, we'

as f rudy giuliani, he's northerly name that's being considered. aides saying he's looking increasingly likely as potential secretary of state. it's a topic giuliani himself even addressed in a "wall street journal" forum last night. take a listen. >> we don't have john bolton here tonight so i'm going to ask you some questions. about -- >> john would be a very good choice. >> is there anybody better? >> maybe me. i don't know. >> so, giuliani certainly having fun with this conversation early on. earlier i spoke to armstrong williams, say close aide to dr. ben carson. there was some reporting dr. carson had been offered by the trump transition team the position of health and human services secretary. armstrong williams tells me, in fact, that no position was ever offered to dr. carson. in fact, he says, the dr. carson believes it would be a disservice to the president-elect to serve him in that capacity, even though he ran for president. armstrong williams tells me that because dr. carson has no experience running a federal bureaucra bureaucracy, h

rudy giuliani doesn't seem to have drawn any line at all. of venezuela. qatar, and for shady iranian dissident group. those are just three we know about. now, the trump transition team may decide they don't care, that his qualifications of his loyalty warrant and being pushed for this job, despite the conflicts. it's just how much do they want to create friction with the incoming to confirm them in the midst of all of these things they have to do. a safer choice would be ambassador john bolton who, again, has enemies on capitol hill, but not as many direct conflicts getting through. >> rapids paul and rudy giuliani had harsh criticism for john bolton as well. >> more of a policy than personal. >> let's talk about the transition right now. because the reports have been that there is turmoil in the trump world. mike rogers was axed from the transition team. maybe because he had ties to chris christie. is there real turmoil that will keep this transition from getting its job done? or are those just growing pains, josh? >> well, i'm sure in the

giuliani who for 48 hours eagerly stoked news of his possible appointment. here's what kellyanne conway said on "morning joe" if his lobbying for the job hurt his chances. >> is there any way shape or form that that is the way to act? >> i think these conversations are always best in private, particularly when you're forming a cabinet and staff. that's why i don't say much about myself. he would command a certain presence around the world if he was secretary of state. but as somebody involved with the transition, we have lost short lists for every positions. >> well now we have a problem with flynn who's taken money from the russians, not a good move if you want to be the top negotiator. let's talk about jeff sessions. let me get back to yamiche. jeff sessions, an alabama senator, if he is picked for trump's cabinet it wouldn't be the first time he faced a confirmation hearing in the senate. when nominated to be a judge 30 years ago in 1986, the "new york times" reported a prosecutor said sessions referred to the american civil liberties union and the naacp

you two know rudy giuliani extremely well. he's someone who was solid behind donald trump, who president-elect trump really came to rely on. during the years, even when giuliani was mayor of new york, i think trump had a lot of respect for how he didn't put up with, you know, much guff. i think he liked that. you're seeing people around giuliani who are pushing for an announcement of some kind. >> so now there's talk that rudy giuliani wants secretary of state or that he will become secretary of state, but the other name in contention is former ambassador john bolt bannon. so rudy giuliani was at an event last night and asked about this. let me play this for you. >> john would be a very good choice. >> is there anybody better? >> maybe me, i don't know. >> okay. he's being coy, sort of. what do you think is going to happen? >> look, i think that trump values loyalty above all else. rudy giuliani has been a scrapper for him, a street fighter for him. if he then wants to turn out to be the chief diplomat, it might make you scrat

start with rudy giuliani. i'm not the one appointing super pac billionaires to high profile positions. that's not me. that's the person who wanted to drain the swamp. kennedy: you could also argue that mitt romney is -- dagen: you've got a billionaire or who's an heiress who's running the commerce department now and a billionaire who earned his money, wilbur ross, who's going to be running the commerce department under donald trump. i do think the issue -- i will add that, that the issue with rudy giuliani has to do with some of the business that he conducted you should giuliani partners -- under giuliani partners. but what i love about this whole affair is that you have individuals, seasoned, experienced, people openly campaigning for these jobs. you've got rudy giuliani who wants it and is willing to talk about it. he talked to "the wall street journal" more than once. and i -- and one thing that newt gingrich and governor mike huckabee have sounded about mitt romney is this is a guy who ran for president tw

with rudy giuliani, there was basically nobody as you know closer to the president-elect than rudy giulianim hearing is that save rudy idea is it's not that he is in deep trouble or something it's that his international business dealings, since he has left his mayor make a lot of money. entitled, free country. complicated. the kind of clind clients he ha. >> no more complicated than the clinton foundation. >> after both rudy giuliani and president-elect trump spent a lot of time beating up on the clinton foundation. you don't want that to boomerang on you. >> how would -- we are talking about a senate confirmation that needs 51 senators. the republicans have the 51 senators. >> very close. >> and maybe 52. depending on louisiana. >> you would expect that there would be some democrats that would support rudy giuliani because before this campaign, especially after 9/11 very non-script. >> you go, listen, you didn't have a problem with the clinton foundation. why do you have a problem with rudy giuliani? >> you could certainly try. that's why the key word was save. it wasn't under the bus. we

let's talk about rudy giuliani. has been openly asking, pleading for on some level, campaigning for the secretary of state position. for the better part of a week, the position trump transition officials were confirming he had the leading role toward getting. when asked today, donald trump, the president-elect, about whether or not rudy giuliani was in line for the secretary of state. he nodded and said, also some other things, as well. a hedge there and good reason why. we talked about it all day yesterday, poppy. mitt romney coming in under active consideration for secretary of state. still a lot of questions about whether that's a real position, real possibility. no question at all, the president-elect is intrigued by the possibility. that may mean rudy giuliani might not be in position for that, poppy. >> phil, all right, so let's play a little game here, if you will. that is, let's assume that it is between giuliani and mitt romney for secretary of state. you've also got to think, you know, what message would d

you can see on the other side of the coin rudy giuliani lobbying publicly for the position. a lot more public airing of grievances than we would normally expect to see in a transition but it is a high-stakes decision, unique situation because donald trump's own party was lined up against him. the pool of contenders is a little smaller than another republican president would have right now. leland: the phone briefing with sean spicer and the kelly and conway tweet about mitt romney, she talked about how it would be possible to have a secretary state who didn't travel the world as much and stayed closer like henry kissinger did, their response to that tweet was, quote, a lot of intrigue is overblown at this stage of picking a cabinet and president-elect trump meeting with many candidates who share his vision was one has to wonder who shares his vision within his camp, you brought up rudy giuliani, his public lobby, we have never seen an example of that from the wall street journal or. i have traveled in the last 13 years as much as hillary did in the years she was secretary of

some of that goes for giuliani as well.en-term republican congressman mike rogers is also out having criticism his intelligence committee report on the 2012 benghazi terrorist attack was incomplete. congressman faced allegations of conflict between his senior staffer and clinton's closest aides. a charge he denied. and john mccain seems to be sending a strong signal to trump tonight that any effort to reset relations with russian president putin, former kgb agent, would be quote an unacceptable price for a nation that has stood against tier anying wiyranny, n. >> are we still teasing that, now that election is over, and mo founding director of georgetown university institute of public service. great to see you all. so we have so many things in the mix right now. is it going to be rudy giuliani for secretary of state? general michael flynn for national security adviser? who is going to be attorney general? stirewalt, your view, which of these is the most potentially controversial that we're looking at? >> well, flynn is nsa.

primarily from rudy giuliani.re they considering other names? are we down to these two. >> these are pretty much the final two. i think there was general john kelly whose name was floated earlier in the week. he may be under consideration for other national security diplomatic or defense posts. what the incoming trump administration is really trying to do here is broaden the number of people in these senior posts who have military combat experience because it's their thinking that if you have people who fought in wars making decisions about whether or not to commit the united states to more wars, that that's a better thing. that makes people on the civilian side of the military very nervous because there's a long tradition of having civilian control of the military in our country. going back to the secretary of state issue, you know, rudy you could tell from that sound bite he's still in it. he wants to make sure he does everything he can to persuade donald trump to pick him. that's why he was on his best behavior

to rudy giuliani, frankly.ou want somebody who will go out and be a very tough negotiator for america and represent american interests in the way that trump campaign i think probably you rudy is a better pick, and has the right temperment because we'll need somebody who is fighter. the world is not going to change just because we show up and say please. if that was going to work, secretary kerry would be -- meghan: vice president-elect mike pence had a lot good to say. >> two men were completely focused on the country. completely focused on what is best interests of the united states and america standing fall in the world and reviving our economy at home. i was frankly very impressed. meghan: james you covered the state department extensively. could you wager who you think they will end up picking? >> if i choose one let's say and other becomes secretary of state, fly around on their plane, yeah, you're not getting a ride back from cairo, thanks so much. this is a fraught subject. both are accomplished men. bot

giuliani goes over the law in detail coming up straight ahead tonight. giuliani goes

giuliani worked his butt off.trump, he would be on the plane and read every one of hillary clinton's e-mails and circle things and give it to the speechwriter or the head of policy. he worked so hard. that's why the staff love him. on the other hand, donald trump cares about appearances and images and giuliani is getting a lot of criticism as not having the proper gravitas. and that matters. >> on the international stage, but also his international businesses -- >> and his conflicts of interest. exactly. i also vet and spent time with mitt romney in san diego in his beachfront home and went to his grandchildren's home, and he said, because of these grandchildren, i could never vote for donald trump, he's against everything i believe in. so we have two men who have been so at each other, now if they can work together, it would be really for the good of the country if they can do that. >> i think, though, we're seeing all across the word lots of people who want to work for this administration. there's always that ki

giuliani: i think you have to set priorities. if the priority is to eliminate ais, maybe you put that off little bit and you get rid of isis first and then you go back to that. , iause isis short-term believe, is our greatest ranger. .ot -- our greatest danger not because of isis in iraq and syria, but because they did something al qaeda never did. they've been able to spread themselves around the world. there are 32 countries that have isis cells. the director of the fbi says there are 1000 investigations in the u.s. they have created a danger that al qaeda never presented to us in terms of their ability to strike, smaller strikes, but still very devastating like orlando in paris and san bernardino and the priest whose head was chopped off in nice. that is when i cannot even think about. gerard: they are on the run in the region. mr. giuliani: i think if you eliminate them where they are, they lose a lot of our -- power. one of the values, and there are a lot of disadvantages, but one of the values of our having a lot of troops

it seems to be team romney versus team giuliani.em to have not forgiven mitt romney for all of the criticism he lobbied at donald trump during the campaign. you remember at one point mitt romney said that a trump presidency would -- could translate into trickle-down racism. a lot of people still not forgiving him for all of the criticism. i think that's the reason why we're seeing the public fighting between these two camps. should id be team romney or former team rudy giuliani. kellyanne conway weighing in on the debate tweeting out yesterday receiving deluge of social media and private communication regarding romney. some trump loyalists warn against romney as secretary of state. very interesting to see this play out publicly. these things normally happen privately behind the scenes. conway saying what she's saying publicly is the same thing that she's been saying to donald trump and to mike pence privately. carol? >> all right, jason carroll reporting live for us this morning. >>> still to come in the "newsroom," she's got the ca

rudy giuliani isn't going to box him in because it's going to make him look weak if he goes with giuliani, suggesting that donald trump is going to let any agency go rogue, is such an insult to donald trump. it's staggering. that somehow trump is going to be weak and go, oh, oh, mitt romney said something. i can't -- i can't -- that would be bad. no. he would fire him that day. >> right. look, i think kellyanne thing is getting a lot of attention and justifiably so. it's unprecedented. remember, mike huckabee spoke out. newt gingrich also spoke out against romney. >> none of them have jobs. none of them have jobs in the trump administration. >> the reason i don't -- >> kellyanne doesn't have a job yet and she's angry about that. she hasn't been offered the job she wants. no, she is. i can report that. and so she's striking out. she's not in any of the meeting wheres the decisions are being made and she's angry about that. but at the same time, you don't go out and attack the vice president-elect because you're mad at reince priebus. . it's unprecedented. romney is not dead in the job beca

and he finally said, giuliani, that he did not have firsthand information about the situation. i think that's the most important thing for our viewers to know right now, that the -- that one of the people who you thought was a source really is not. and that's instructive, and we know that donald trump is immune to fact checking, but perhaps rudy giuliani is not. we just saw that happen. >> let's be clear here, too, surrogates are not sources and they're not reporters. this idea that new information is being entered into the public record about the most high leveled functions of the federal bureau of investigation is ludicrous to begin with. >> this is so crazy. just stepping back, there's an old journalism rule that says very close to an election, if you're in a newsroom, you did not put out an explosive story that could sway the election one way or the other unless there's an extreme public need to know. what rudy giuliani did, what bret baier did is polluting the public record without really knowing anything. that's a disservice to viewers and also a disservice to the democra