rudy giuliani did not launch into a giuliani rant about the grand jury going off to his hero donald trump unfairly. rudy giuliani said the kind of thing people say when they are very afraid of what is going to happen to them in the grand jury room. and donald trump is very afraid tonight about what actually did happen in that grand jury room today. there is no law that prevents rudy giuliani from telling donald trump everything that was said in his six hours of testimony to the grand jury. but whatever summary of his testimony rudy giuliani might be giving donald trump tonight -- possibly at this very moment -- donald trump should not believe it. rudy giuliani entered the grand jury room alone, as all witnesses do, to face 23 grand jurors, who already suspect him of criminal conduct. that is why he is a target of the grand jury's investigation. public evidence seems to show that rudy giuliani did commit the crime of lying to georgia government officials. he is doing exactly that with members of the georgia legislature in this video. >> there is overwhelming proof before it, it depends on

rudy giuliani is way off there. certain communications that rudy giuliani had individually with his client donald trump may be protected by the attorney/client privilege but not if they represent to an ongoing crime. but the public statements that he made as part of his representation of donald trump, that they are privileged, that is nonsense. that is absolutely not the case. now, could prosecutors try to force rudy giuliani to testify? as complicated because if rudy says i claim attorney/client privilege, you can't physically force him to talk. as a prosecutor you then have to go to a judge and initiate litigation which takes time. so prosecutors will have to figure out is it worth it to fight for that testimony. >> you disagree with how fulton county prosecutors have gone about this, you think that this was perhaps an underwear to bring giuliani in. explain. >> i do. it is not a rule or law, but seen as good prosecutorial practice that once you have designated somebody as a target, you don't then subpoena that pe

rudy giuliani.was in the middle of peddling these conspiracy theories about the election, in the aftermath of the legislation, some people in his orbit were certainly distancing. they from giuliani. and a lot of republican allies would not take his phone calls because they didn't want to be involved in the efforts that rudy giuliani was involved in. while you are being named a target, it doesn't may not that you are going to be indicted definitely. it just means prosecutors think they go get to an indictment. i think it raises concerns for trump as well. so the questions people have when it come to rudy giuliani, what will be the line drawn of what trump was urging him to do and what he was actually doing in georgia. we know we saw him coming out saying he believed ballots were smuggled in teenagers, underage voters, none of which was there. that raises concern. but giuliani and his attorneys say they won't talk about his conversations between and he trump on wednesday because of attorney-client pri

not giuliani. there's no problem with indicting giuliani there.t a complete separate crime, lying to the feds. and whoever this lawyer or lawyers is, the new york times says it's more than one, a third really dangerous person for donald trump. because whether innocent or not, he or she can detail criminal conduct and by the way at all three cases can conspiracy conduct as well. so i agree, we have seen him duck and bob and weave ally his way out of a lot of things, but the sheer numbers of it and the gravity of it, it seems different. >> yes, there is also the the way works, is that you multiply probabilities. the odds of getting out of one, and the odds of weaving out of another, and the odds of weaving out of another, you get some chances, but on the question of the documents. i can't just can't quite figure out what this is. because i guess the most bullish of all legal prospects of donald trump is that they just wanted the documents. they didn't want to have to do this and their hand was forced another have to. you're shaking your head no. >>

giuliani is about to go under oath. in fact, in just two days, to face the georgia grand jury this wednesday we know a judge pushed prosecutors in that state they should inform giuliani of his exact jeopardy before he goes into that testimony for fairness. and indeed, this is legally a tradition. so now he knows his current status in that probably and that may make make his lawyers more likely to advise him to take the fifth because the questions are about the same overlapping topics, just as trump did last week in an unrelated case. we also have some clues about giuliani's exposure, where his election lies may have turned potentially criminal. >> dominion, the connection to chavez is a highly -- what would that suggest? phantom votes. >> not just any clip. rudying, i could pick from all kinds of clips of what prosecutors would call evidence because sometimes your words can become testimonial evidence and that statement i just showed you in brief, that was made in georgia. you could say people in politics lie all the ti

, giuliani's local counsel in georgia, so giuliani has an attorney in georgia that's also working on this, as well. was told today that he's now a target of this investigation by a grand jury in fulton county, georgia. they're looking into whether or not anybody violated any laws tied to any sort of election interference involving the 2020 election. at that point, if this grand jury, when they come out with a report, they cannot indict themselves. it could be up to the district attorney, whether or not to charge anybody if there's any criminality that they have found. so that's something that could happen down the line. as far as what a target means, one of our colleagues here at nbc news, blayne alexander, is out to the district attorney's office, trying to determine what that is. if it was the federal system, i could spell it out for you, because there are actual definitions in the u.s. attorney's manual. what exactly is subject and the target is in the federal system and a target would potentially indicate somebody is about or is likely to face charges and there's criminality has

giuliani was told he is a target of that investigation. outside of the fulton county courthouse with more on what we should expect here. nick? >> reporter: yeah, good morning, brianna. rudy giuliani after some legal wrangling and much anticipation is expected to appear before the special purpose grand jury here in fulton county. and, remember, he was supposed to appear here last week before his team filed a late motion for a continue ans listing health concerns as the reason he couldn't travel by air. ultimately a fulton county judge ruled he must appear today and he will. he's going to be talking about his three appearances before state legislators here in the wake of the 2020 election. district attorney fani willis who is leading this investigation wants to know more about what he said to those lawmakers as he spread conspiracy theories and baseless claims of election fraud. this is a significant development in this investigation. giuliani is the first person, part of trump's inner circle, to be named as a target of a criminal investigat

giuliani would go. he said he's a man up in years. you've been reporting on all the health complaints from his lawyers. that he's a man up in years and he's not going to want to be in jail if he can avoid it. >> yeah, giuliani's own words seem to contradict that a little bit. he said that this decision is evidence of fascism. he said he was just defending his client. we know as the special grand jury has been gathering information they've been very focused on two key pieces of the efforts to overturn the election that directly involve giuliani. one was the trip to georgia for the seven-hour wide ranging hearing before the sentate sena on all of the conspiracy theorys that he was playing out to overturn the election. the other was to have a slate of fake electors. those electors met. we that you understand rudy giuliani was directly involved in that effort as well. he has a lot of involvement. to answer those questions we really don't know what's going to happen. >> let's listen to how giuliani responded

. ♪ ♪ >>> happening now six hours after entering the courthouse, rudy giuliani wraps up his appearanceore a grand jury in georgia. we'll have the latest on his testimony in the probe of former president trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential results. also tonight, former vice president mike pence is urging fellow republicans to stop attacking the fbi after its search of mar-a-lago. this comes as the federal judge is preparing to decide if secret information about the search is made public. and liz cheney is vowing to prevent trump from returning to power after her landslide gop primary defeat that will oust her from congress. she says she's considering a 2024 run for the white house in a potential showdown with the former president. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room." ♪ ♪ >>> we begin this hour with rudy giuliani facing the georgia grand jury knowing he's the target of a criminal investigation. the former trump lawyer questioned under oath about the ex-president's potentially illegal attemp

giuliani, mr. giuliani's associates, mr. meadows, members of congress, it's difficult to distinguish the members i'm thinking were involved at thanksgiving -- >> at the presidents request, >> what did the president say when he called? >> he turned the call over to mr. eastman who then proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather contingent electors in case legal challenges that were ongoing change the result. of any of the dates. [inaudible] my understanding is the campaign did take the lead and we just were helping them. . >> as trump in his supporters continue to lose, some campaign lawyers became convinced that the states trump laws were no longer appropriate [inaudible] . >> i called somebody saying, there must be a litigation pending in the states i don't think this is appropriate and it's not the right thing to do. i don't remember how i phrased it but, i got into a back and forth and i think it was with can cheese borough where i said, all right, get after it i'm out. >> at that point,

why only rudy giuliani? >> alisyn, the reason that i think donald trump not is a current target but is at risk of being named as a target, the reason is because he was so intertwined with rudy giuliani on the facts of this assault on the law in georgia, because the two of them were, in essence, joined at the hip. i don't see a world in which giuliani gets a target letter, and that's what a target designation is. it's a letter from the government telling you that there's substantial evidence of possible crime and that you may be charged. i don't see a world in which the d.a. down there, fani willis, doesn't also get, eventually, she hasn't made the decision yet, but eventually get to saying the same about trump. so, trump is also at great risk, even if it's not named yet. >> elie, you heard there from rudy giuliani that he says that he won't answer any questions that are covered according to him by attorney-client privilege. how's that correspond with the law? >> not at all. there's all sorts of wrong in the

rudy giuliani, you can run but you can't hide. your time is up.ou have now graduated to be a target. now it's your time before the grand jury. he can plead the fifth. yes. he can decide attorney/client privilege, but then you have the time question. there's so much that can go on, but let's not forget, rudy giuliani also had his license suspended. >> that's right what does it look like to the grand jury if he takes the fifth. >> grand jury, the district attorney is going to give that grand jury an instruction as to pleading the fifth, and what impacts it can have. >> just to be clear, and ken alluded to this before that rudy giuliani is going to say anything he said was in defense of his client. is that an offense? can you lie as an attorney in defense of your client? >> well, that's exactly one of the reasons that got his law license suspended. in fact, the department said in their decision that they cited 35 violations. 35 times that georgia was mentioned during that investigation, where they ultimately determined that his license needed to be s

giuliani had a procedure for his heart in july. his lawyer say this is a 78 -year-old man with health conditions. he is not able to fly, he cannot come to georgia. and the judge just really rejected that. giuliani has been quite active, he's been hosting his radio show every, day he's been out and about in new york, he went to a baseball game. so the judge said you can take a bus you can take a car, you can visit a friend in d. c.. it doesn't have to be a one day trip, but we expect to see you in court on wednesday in georgia. >> and we will be watching. i have to ask, one of the people in georgia think about all this. obviously this is massive on a big stage. but the midterms around the corner. is this case a kitchen table issues with the people down there? this is a state that herschel walker could win this upcoming election? >> the 2020 election in so many ways has never ended in georgia. there have been contests and objections to that election and rudy giuliani was a huge part of that in december, 2020 came down for this massiv

rudy giuliani speaking out after learning prosecutors have named him as a target in their special grand jury investigation in georgia. details on that development in just a moment. there are lots of them. let's begin with katelyn polantz in washington. so, first, walk us through the doj's position on what would be a rare step of making public an affidavit for a search warrant at this stage. >> reporter: right. well, it would be rare to make a search warrant affidavit public, but we are at a point where there is a push for transparency, not just on capitol hill, but the media, including cnn. in court the justice department made a set of arguments and really a couple little details about this investigation that they're saying should keep this affidavit secret, confidential, only for their eyes and for the judge's eyes. in their filing yesterday, they wrote if disclosed, the affidavit would serve as a road map to the government's ongoing investigation, providing specific details about its direction and likely course in a manner that is highly likely to compromise future investigative steps

- giuliani himself in now? well, it appears _ giuliani himself in now?ow? well, it appears that rudy _ giuliani himself in now? well, it appears that rudy giuliani l it appears that rudy giuliani is inconsiderable legal jeopardy, not only in this case in georgia but also facing legal jeopardy in georgia but also facing legaljeopardy in other cases in new york, so there are multiple factors going in to rudy giuliani's potential illegal exposure here but in georgia specifically this idea that attorney—client privilege applies to his testimony is a weak argument. attorney—client privilege only applies to advice and discussion with your client about legal advice, but there is also exceptions to that — if it is involved in an ongoing crime, it does not apply. and rudy giuliani made plenty of statements publicly that were not attorney—client privilege, not covered under that. public statements are not covered. so, he can try and use the attorney—client privilege argument. he may try and litigate that before another judge, but it is not going to hold legal wate

one, will giuliani still show up for the grand jury this week? costello says, yes, that is the plan at this point. his testimony had been postponed because of surgery that giuliani had. and then as far as whether or not he'll get into the subject of any sort of conversations between the former president trump and giuliani, he called it delusional, that's a quote, that there would be any sort of testimony in regards to that because of attorney/client privilege. they say they've can communicated that to the fulton county district attorney's office. >> you know me too well and the questions i'm going to ask. >> i'm afraid what you're going to ask me next. >> carol, can you just remind us in broad strokes, what he has to do with in this investigation in fulton county. what was happening back in december, january of 2020? >> reporter: i'm happy to, katy. rudy giuliani was not only the president's point of the spear, the tip of the spear on many efforts to claim that the election was rigged, the election in which joe biden was far and away the winner,

giuliani. >> thank you. i understand that georgia secretary of state's office investigated those allegations and didn't find any evidence of fraud. what did you find when your office conducted its own investigation? >> we found that this suitcase full of olives, the alleged black suitcase that was being seen pulled from under the table was actually an official lockbox where ballots were kept safe. we found out that there was a mistake in terms of misunderstanding that there were done counting ballots for the night. and the partisan watchers that was signed by each of the respective party were announced at to send hope it went to realize someone from the secretary of state office had indicated no, no, no, , we're nt done for the night you need to go heading continue counting, so once they packed up the lockbox full of ballots they brought back the official ballot box again and continued to tally the ballots from that, from the lockbox. unfortunately during the senate hearing mr. giuliani only played a clip th

giuliani speaking to the cameras i will come back to you for an update. appreciate. >>> it speaking of things going down in courtrooms and with judges, we're just one day away from a hearing that's going to decide whether or not we'll see what prompted last week's search at mar-a-lago because we know who, what, when, where, but we do not know the why as it relates to the doj's justification for this search formally. the justice department is expected to say hey, we don't want that released, saying it contains highly sensitive information that could effectively mess up their investigation and ahead of that hearing, there's new "washington post" reporting saying that former president, donald trump, is having a tough time finding a legal team to represent him. his former attorney michael cohen telling the "post" a lot of this because mr. trump is in cohen's words, a very difficult client who rarely listens to sound legal advice. i want to bring in the author of that piece, "washington post" political reporter isaac. good to have you. you write one former tru

six hours, full day before a grand jury for giuliani wednesday. he left without speaking to reporters. what do we know about what happened and do you think because he is a target that changes how he might have answered some of the questions? >> if anything, i think by being a target, not just a witness, probably the grand jury probably got an even more cautious giuliani even less willing to answer their questions and quite frankly, even before he became -- even before it was known that he was a target of the investigation, he had basically floated or kind of indicated he was thnot going to answer a lot of questions, he would claim attorney/client privilege. again we don't know what happened behind closed doors. he and his attorneys said that they weren't going to talk about what was said or what was asked of them by the grand jury and its investigators, but the indications are that programs he found ways to not answer the questions. >> we heard yesterday that the former vice president mike pence says that he would give due consideration is what he

not giuliani.im and get information, if he wants to cooperate about trump before ever facing this. short answer, big trouble for trump whether it's by cooperation and charging or if it comes to it, as barb points out, limited use immunity. >> you are much more a normal person than i am, i occasionally try to play one on the show. a lot of people watching this would be sure, a lot of people out in the country heard that phone call with raffensperger and people think if that's not illegal, a sitting president calling the secretary of state saying can you find me these votes? if that's not illegal, what's justice even mean in america? >> it's an important point. there's a cost to democracy. when you don't pursue somebody who has potentially committed this type of crime, it's a huge cost to democracy. we saw that when we saw those election workers testifying before the january 6th committee. that's one example of the every-day americans whose lives are put at risk by people who are willing to give up d

rudy giuliani is a target of this investigation. there has been speculation he could take the fifth amendment today. what do we he know about his appearance today? >> reporter: that's right. he was hoping to delay this appearance. he did not succeed in that so he is behind closed doors speaking before the special grand jury. whether he's answering questions, we don't know the answer to that. his attorney would not say whether he plans to plead the gift amendment. his attorney also said its prosecutors are delusional if they think giuliani's going to answer any questions about his conversations with trump, who was his former client. here's what rudy giuliani had to say to nick valencia when he was on his way into court this morning. >> reporter: mr. agiuliani, whe you met with georgia lawmakers did you lie to them. >> we are not talking about this until it's over. grand juries are secret. >> reporter: do you believe the president is the ultimate target? >> i'm not talking about today. >> reporter: what do you expect to talk about tod

he likes rudy giuliani.be charged recently and he has already been suspended from the new york bar. he likes -- he used to like michael cohen. michael cohen is a convicted felon. he likes sidney powell. well, sidney powell is facing many civil lawsuits because of her conduct with the former president. so the kinds of pressures that you're put under, if you're representing somebody like donald trump, are ones that if you're at the top of your field, you really can think to yourself, i don't need this. >> all right. ken dilanian, thanks. andrew wiseman, our thanks to you. but you'll stay with us. >>> this morning, rudy giuliani is appearing before the georgia grand jury on interference in the 2020 election. we'll have the latest from outside the court. >>> and tomorrow, longtype trump executive allen weisselberg is expected to plead guilty in a tax case tied to the trump organization's business dealings. what it means for the larger investigation, next. what it means for the larger investigation, next. some pe

so, giuliani went from being subject to being a target. what could this potentially made for him, legally, and how might this impact donald trump, do you think? >> it's a huge step. to be the subject means, we're looking at something. to be the target means, we were looking at you, and a grand jury is looking specifically at you as a potential person of, perhaps, an indictment. that's a wake-up call. normally, telling someone to talk to your lawyer, and maybe approach the government to make a deal. that deal would involve, basically, turning over donald trump. and so, donald trump publicly is nervous about this. rudy giuliani is going to say, he does want to spend time in jail. and so, the cost of staying out of jail might be to turn over everything you know about donald trump. this is really a worrisome time for donald trump, in this regard. >> incredible last few days. we have covered it there, but still so much more to do. michael genevieve, thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. >> thank you, rosemary. >>> still to come, w

giuliani is expected to appear wednesday. no word if he will invoke his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. >> i think this is moving ahead full speed and i expect that it will be a pretty devastating case that will include donald trump. >> reporter: getting answers out of giuliani may prove to be a very tall task for this special purpose grand jury. giuliani's attorney says though his client is expected to appear, he can make no promises how responsive he will be. brianna? >> perhaps a preview there. nick valencia, live for us in atlanta. >>> as students are heading back to school, there is a teacher shortage across the country. so what needs to be done? we'll ask education secretary miguel cardona next. >>> and tag this under my own personal nightmare. a mysterious object falls from the sky and crash lands six feet from someone in maine. that man is going to join us ahead. >> i suppose it matters what object falls mysteriously from the -- >> any object at that speed. >>> it is primary day in alaska and wyoming

what does that change for giuliani and for donald trump?, rudy giuliani's resume really took a worse for the turn for the worst today. on the one hand, he's a former new york city mayor, is a former new york states attorney, is the former personal attorney for the president of the united states, but now he has to include on his resume that he is the target of a criminal investigation into election fraud. there is a technical definition of target and i actually pulled out my old u.s. attorneys manual. that sort of the procedural bible the by which we federal prosecutors do business. it's the definition of target that is pretty much universally accepted even in the state systems. i want to read it verbatim. a target is a person as to whom the prosecutor or the grand jury has substantial evidence linking him or her to the commission of a crime and who in the judgment of a prosecutor is a punitive putative defendant. a target is the guy we are looking to indict. >> not necessarily the only guy in any particular grand jury? >> no, we can have mu

what is giuliani's team saying about his testimony tonight? >> reporter: well, erin, we asked bob costello for details, but he says he wanted to respect the privacy of the process, so declined to comment. we don't know the line of questioning from the special grand jury, but we know as you mentioned that giuliani was in there for roughly six hours. it was giuliani as we reported that appeared three times in the wake of the 2020 election before georgia lawmakers. twice in person, once virtually. it was during those appearances that he spread conspiracy theorys and baseless claims about election fraud. we don't know if he was asked about that. but the bigger question, is was he cooperative? he seemed to indicate he was willing to play hardball and any conversation that he's had with former president trump is protected under attorney-client privilege. but since he's been named a criminal target in this investigation, it may not be that cut and dry. erin? >> certainly not. and he has been named a target and informed of that. so nick, there are maj

rudy giuliani was told he is a target of that criminal investigation.nd in the federal january 6th investigation, the trump white house lawyer is under subpoena to share what he knows with a federal grand jury. let's find out what this new court filing tells us about that mar-a-lago search. >> reporter: john, the justice department is really tipping their hand a little bit on what is going on in this investigation. and they really are making it clear it is a serious criminal investigation. highly classified materials. that's important. i want to read what they said so far even while they're trying to keep secret details in the actual court record in the affidavit that supports doing this search. what they wrote to the judge in arguing for secrecy still does let on a little bit. zo disclosure of the affidavit would chill future cooperation by witnesses' who's assistance may be sought as well as in other high-profile investigations. the fact that this investigation implicates highly classified material further underscores the need to protect the integrity

giuliani. and hold him to what he said. so again, it ends up being a lot of spin at the time, sound bites and just thanks to try to cause a stir, right, so we'll see what comes out of the grand jury. we probably won't see that for a while, as it is a secret proceeding, but we'll see what happens and what mr. giuliani has to say when the grand jury is complete. >> page, how strong do you think that evidence is? >> i think it's particularly strong. i mean, there is a georgia crime for making a false statement in an official proceeding. and that not only can be a separate felony offense but perhaps more importantly in this investigation, it can be the predicate act for a racketeering charge, and everything we've seen about this grand jury, the witnesses that have been called, the filings that have been made in court, i think the district attorney is trying to build a rico case, and so each one of these false statements could be a predicate act for subsequent rico indictment. >> peter, i want to ask you about what former vice p

and what is giuliani's response? >> when you start turning around lawyers they'll be defending the clients. that are going to live in a fascist state. >> for the record. for the record, let's be very clear about this, so that people don't get it twisted. no one is after going after anyone. no one is treating anyone in the trump administration, any differently that they've treated other presidents. and no other president has had as egregious behavior is that. i so, would rudy giuliani says, this is not a fascist state. this is the united states of america. a democracy that generation the patriots have fought and died to protect. a democracy that needs to hold. in order to do that we have to have an agreement upon which reality and what facts are. and with lies are. and what excuses are. he is not the only one caught up in the many many investigations of the former president and his inner circle. a federal judge just a ruling that lindsey graham must testify before that same georgia grand jury. the senator is scheduled

i just reached out to giuliani's atlanta-based attorney to see if he was en route. we have not heard back. we do know that giuliani had made multiple efforts to try to get a continuance on his testimony because of health concerns. a judge ultimately ruled here in fulton county he must appear on wednesday and he'll be doing so as a target of this criminal investigation. and the development is a significant one. this is the first time a member of the former president's inner circle has been named as a target of this criminal investigation and just to remind you, it was giuliani who appeared three times before lawmakers here to spread conspiracy theories in the wake of the 2020 election. false claims about voter election fraud, claims that have since proven to be untrue. just listen to the types of things he was saying in december of 2020. >> they look like they're passing out dope. not just ballots. it is quite clear they're stealing votes. >> the people in fulton county were instructed not to look at signatures. not only do you have testimony of that effect, you have

maiden name giuliani is your maiden name?!y, you done it again! [ laughter ] and again i should clarify, you know, all jokes aside here, when he married his second cousin, which is a real thing he did, her maiden name wasn't giuliani. i mean, this man was the mayor of new york city how dare i treat him like some sort of clown? oh, well, all right. [ laughter ] well, i guess it's fair now. you know who probably panicked when rudy giuliani appeared as a jack-in-the-box? this guy, yeah i'm going to lay low for a while. [ light laughter ] and yet somehow that was not the only incredibly stupid thing to happen in republican politics yesterday, because one of trump's longtime friends and allies, piers morgan, released an overly dramatic trailer for a new interview with trump where he claimed trump angrily stormed out of the interview when pressed about his election lies. >> okay, piers, i'm ready. >> a former president in denial. >> i'll be completely straight with you to your face. >> i think i'm a very honest man. much more honest

in this case, to keep rudy giuliani from incriminating donald trump.grand jury for six hours, even if they are not answering questions substantively. but instead invoking all kinds of privileges. >> glenn, i was listening to the justice matters podcast the other day. you say that the manhattan da gave trump organizations top money man allen weisselberg a, quote, sweetheart deal for the ages. by allowing him to plead guilty to 50 felonies, but only likely, eventually serving just 100 days behind bars. now, weisselberg, he has to testify truthfully against the trump organization in october. but glenn, do you think it's a missions will implicated donald trump, at a minimum, and perhaps even other members of the trump family? >> let's hope so. if justice means anything. but here is my real beef with that plea offer. yes it is too little time. five months, it is little as 100 days, if he gets a good time credits. while he is serving those five months. five months for 15 felonies. he defrauded the taxpayers of the city of new york, of the state of new york a

giuliani is set to appear before a special grand jury in atlanta.er prosecutor and civil rights attorney, charles coleman. what's the significance of the lawyer being informed your client, rudy giuliani, is a target? >> well, chris, this is a big deal. it is the difference between you being a witness and you being the actual defendant in terms of the potential for what this entails. what we know is that fawny willis has been building a case to deal with the election interference that occurred in 2020. she's been talking to lindsey graham, she's been talking to everyone who was around this situation and before now, rudy giuliani had been subpoenaed as a witness, in terms of trying to deal with the investigation and gather facts. but now at this point, what this says is that there's been enough information to understand that rudy giuliani is a target. meaning that he is a potential defendant. so his attorney, his strategy around what he does when he shows up in fulton county is entirely different. now there are different things that he anecdote in ter

as we mentioned earlier there is also very big news involving rudy giuliani. kristen welker is following that story for us. listen to this. >> today, former president trump's former lawyer, rudy giuliani, testified in front of a grand jury in atlanta for six hours. it's where he led the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. >> it is clear that the count you have right now is false. >> giuliani was told he is the target of the probe. his attorneys say he would invoke attorney client privilege if asked about conversations with his former boss. >> nobody knows georgia better than you, greg. what do you know about what happened behind closed doors? >> there was six hours of testimony, and we have no indication that he said much of anything behind is closed doors. his attorney would not say whether he answered any of the questions. but as you just heard, he suggested that he invoked attorney client privilege, or invoke the fifth amendment. now that we know rudy giuliani is a potential target of the criminal investigation. but what we do

giuliani, when you met with georgia lawmakers, did you lie to them? >> we will not talk about this until it is over. it is a grand jury and grand juries as i recall are secret. >> do you believe president trump is the ultimate target of this investigation? >> i'm not going to comment on the grand jury investigation. >> what do you think their ultimate goal is here? what are you expecting to talk about here today? >> they ask the questions and we'll see. >> will you be cooperative? your attorney in new york says he can't promise how responsive you'll be? >> good-bye. >> reporter: a bit of an awkward moment for giuliani, he got here just before those doors opened in the fulton county courthouse, so he had to stand outside for a minute being peppered by questions from the media. he was just as responsive to the rest of them as he was to us. den he didn't say much. it is a full day of testimony before the special purpose grand jury. this is a significant development. he's the first person part of the former president's inner circle to be named as a target

john eastman, jenna ellis standing there, rudy giuliani. they have been ordered to testify, with all of the attention going on at mar-a-lago, how big of a threat does this fake elector investigation remain to the former president? >> i think the fake elector scheme is one of the most serious that we've seen in the course of the january 6th committee investigation. -- >> this is concrete fraudulent attempt. -- >> absolutely. this is a intricate, fully executed, but nevertheless scheme tip completely undermined the results of the election. and it happened, not just in one place, but with teams of people in multiple states. there's a lot of evidence to go around. >> they sent it into the national archives, they sent these fake slates, it wasn't just, let's talk about it over cup of coffee. it happened. that's illegal. >> will someone be held responsible for this? >> i think there's a good chance, but as with all of these january 6th crimes, the folks most likely to get in trouble first are probably the furthest away from the top level drivers.

donald trump's former lawyer, rudy giuliani, is told by us prosecutors he's a target of their criminal investigation into attempts to overturn the presidential election result. the taliban celebrate the first anniversary of their return to power in afghanistan, but the picture remains bleak for women and girls. one big thing among others that challenges the more moderate image they are trying to portray is the restrictions they have imposed on women, the fact they have not allowed girls to go to secondary school in most of afghanistan, the only country in the world to do so. the uk becomes the first country to approve a covid vaccine that fights both the original strain and the omicron variant. and checkmate, with a difference. how underwater chess is helping competitors stay cool in the hot weather. hello and welcome to the programme. we begin in east africa, where kenya's deputy president, william ruto, has been declared the winner of last week's presidential election, but amid scenes of chaos and confusion. the head of the electoral authority was briefly prevented from declaring the

how do we know what rudy giuliani said? can't talk about it, that's illegal, it violates criminal laws against violating grand jury secrecy. rudy, however, can tell us whatever the heck he wants, he can say here is what they asked me, or a spokesperson for lawyer for him. >> i feel like we will find out. >> perhaps. >> honestly, john. you know rudy, i've interviewed him several adverttimes, rudy lo spin a yarn, he likes to talk, he likes to tell his story. do you find it hard to believe he would say nothing to investigators for six hours, knowing him? >> i think he will invoke attorney/client privilege, because he's said as much, that's his baseline defense. rudy, with his daily radio show and whatnot, will talk around this. he's trying to take the grand jury seriously as a secret process. the problem is rudy as he is today is miles away from rudy as he was when he was a u.s. attorney, when he was third in the justice department, as a very young man, let alone as mayor. >> you mean in terms of his judgment? >> i think his j

rudy giuliani knows with the sticks. so anything that would incriminate him, he would've assorted his fifth amendment privilege on the ground that the truth would answer potentially incriminated. with respect to donald trump, i bet that the reason this took so long was because every time they asked him about a conversation with donald trump, he wound up asserting attorney-client privilege. as opposed to the fifth amendment. and i think it took so long because the prosecutor wanted to detail all of these conversations having assert the client attorney privilege with respect to all of these conversations with donald trump. and then go back to the judge and have the judge ordered him to reveal those conversations on the ground that these are conversations in further of criminal activity. and they are not covered by the attorney client privilege. >> there are a lot of big players involved in this georgia case nick. giuliani, lindsey graham, john eastman and of course trump. i mean, let's remind our viewers what he said to se

that lawyer had previously said giuliani was a witness.iuliani was president trump's attorney at the time and played a major role in trying to change the election outcome in georgia legal experts tell nbc news being labeled a target means prosecutors are looking more closely at whether giuliani committed a crime. the d.a.'s office has not commented. giuliani is expected to testify in person before the grand jury on wednesday despite asking for a delay citing health reasons. the d.a.'s office offered to pay for a bus or train ticket for him. meanwhile a federal judge today rejected efforts by senator lindsey graham to avoid testifying before the grand jury in atlanta graham will appeal but is scheduled to appear later this month lester, we're watching it all closely >> kristen, thank you. >>> just developing the faa says staff shortages are forcing it to reduce flights in and around new york city for safety reasons. government sources tell nbc news too many people in key positions are out sick the faa says departing and arriving flights cou

rudy giuliani faces hours of questions about possible election meddling in georgia. his new comments after the hearing. >>> space scare. why a cosmonaut was ordered to drop everything and get back inside the international space station. >>> well, good morning, and good to be with you. i'm anne-marie green. the cdc is bracing for a major overhaul after being criticized for its handling of the covid pandemic. in an exclusive tv interview with cbs news yesterday, director rochelle walensky said the health agency had learned some hard lessons over the past three years. a report commissioned by walensky uncovered deep concerns been the cdc's culture and day-to-day practices. bradley blackburn has more. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. cdc employees got the news just yesterday about what the agency is calling a reset. it comes after they did a hard look at missteps during the pandemic and as the cdc faces another big health challenge with a growing outbreak of monkeypox. cdc direction to rochelle walensky is ordering an internal organization over the covid-19 respo

>>> and the investigation into rudy giuliani. whether he'll face charges over his comments about ukraine. >>> plus why a judge's comments, and sandy hook victims in court today. we've got it all covered here in washington. i want to bring in kelly o'donnell, our senior white house correspondent, and our senior political editor. kelly, let me start with you. get to the bottom line for us. what was this executive order that the president signed as it relates to abortion access? >> reporter: the truth is it is limited at this point. the president's power in the executive are limited because congress really needs to make big changes. what can the president do? in this, he is asking his own executive branch department, health and human services, to try to set up rule over the next 30 days to use medicaid, which is a joint state and federal program to help those women in states where abortion is not legal because of the overturning of roe v. wade, and to see if they can travel to states where those services are legal, and to have an ab

let's focus on giuliani. expecting to see tomorrow is he is going to be testifying before the special grand jury in a downtown atlanta courthouse. aside from that, we're not going to see too much or hear too much. we do know a lot of this is centering around his statements to georgia lawmakers in december of 2020. it's important to remind us why the d.a. wants to hear from us in the first place. all this centers around statements he made around legislative panels essentially which he came forward and peddled a number of conspiracy theories and lies about georgia's election including targeting two election workers saying they were responsible for, in his words, throwing the election in biden's favor. of course, that's not the case. they received death threats because of it. we expect he'll be questioned on that. in terms of his relationship with the former president, his attorney, giuliani's attorney, tells nbc news that because giuliani is trump's former personal attorney that giuliani plans to invoke attorne

i believe the next scapegoat is going to be rudy colludy giuliani.verybody likes a bargain, but donald trump really likes a bargain. i believe like rudy's-able go. they're going to throw him under the bus for mar-a-lago and they're going to throw him under the bus for georgia, for the district attorney fani willis's case in georgia. they'll keep pointing the finger. it's rudy. it's rudy. i have nothing to do with it. it's rudy. just ask rudy. >> it's surprising, but i shouldn't be surprised, but watch everyone make all these excuses for what happened, even the former president, because some of these excuses are starting to muddy each other. wait a minute. did you not just say it was something else and now you're saying it's something else. and someone is going on television, one of your people saying it's now this? isn't the fact of the matter is that you did something wrong? you just don't pack 33 boxes of classified information by accident. that just does not happen. >> no, but not only does that not happen, he already returned more than a dozen bo

let's start if rudy giuliani were your client today.knows he's a target of the investigation, how does that change his posture in that room? knowing he's not there as a normal witness. they're not asking him what happened this day or that. they're asking him questions with the stated goal he might be indicted. >> he has a lot of legal exposure and they informed him ahead of time he was a target. i expect him to be circumspect. perhaps take the fifth amendment, perhaps try not to answer certain questions, but i don't think that he is going to be in a position where it's going to be in his interests to speak freely and share everything that he knows. he has lot of legal exposure here now he's been informed a target. >> help us understand where he is donald trump's lawyer and where he is not. as in where he can say i can't talk to you about that. it's a privileged conversation. i want to go back to the election in 2020. most people think as a lawyer you represent your client in court or some other legal proceedings. he was in public all th