ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guest, glen deason, in our slow, he's a professor at the university of southeastern norway, as well as author of the book, great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution. and in budapest we have george samuel wiley. he's a podcast to read the goggle, which can be found on youtube, an locals, or a gentleman, crossed up rules that affect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. i like start out with glenn and also also i think you'd both that well, all of us would agree the robert gates and kind of lisa rice essentially speak for the foreign policy blob of the united states. they came, they co authored an article which it was title time is not on ukraine side, which i think all of us would agree, but for very different reasons. basically, both of them with their very, i would say flawed foreign policy past when it comes to a foreign military adventures are essentially saying the united states has to escalate with more money, more troops, more material. how do you take that? because you could say yo