brian: we need to get glen lowery's response to you in that interview.video clip] >> do you have a racial diversity mandate? amy: yes. brian: so you're saying that students of color are at the bottom? amy: i haven't done the survey. i have not done a systematic study. have aking about -- i students every89 year. ongoing on that. a lot of this is a closely guarded secret as you can imagine. [and video could -- end video clip] brian: what is a solution to what you are talking about? amy: first, you have to decide there is a problem. brian: does anybody think there is a problem? amy: one of the distortions that has come out of this tiny clip, which is completely taken out of context, is the conclusion that i am completely adamantly and totally against affirmative action and that i have some kind of crusade going about that. i don't. my attitude towards affirmative-action, like any good small school conservative is, it has pros and cons, it has costs, it has benefits. we are not going to bring about utopia because every benefit, every upside has a downside.

brian: we need to get glen lowery's response to you in that interview.deo clip] >> do you have a racial diversity mandate? for long review appointments at penn? amy: yes. brian: so you're saying that students of color are at the bottom? amy: i haven't done the survey. i have not done a systematic study. i'm talking about -- i have a class of about 89 students every year. so i see a big chunk of students every year. i'm going on that. a lot of this is a closely guarded secret, as you can imagine. [end video clip] brian: what is a solution to what you are talking about? amy: first, you have to decide there is a problem. brian: does anybody think there is a problem? amy: one of the distortions that has come out of this tiny clip, which is completely taken out of context, is the conclusion that i am completely adamantly and totally against affirmative action and that i have some kind of crusade going about that. i don't. my attitude towards affirmative-action, like any good small school conservative is, it has pros and cons, it has costs, it has benefits. we

>> she said it to a black professor at brown university glen lowery who agreed with her. record. it's a blog. you can go look at it and it's not about whether one agrees with her about affirmative action, it's about her ability to express a point of view, to have an open intellectual debate on a campus about a serious social issue. i can see people being genuinely supportive for good reason of affirmative action. and i can see people taking opposite view. ainsley: what do you say to the critics? because the critics would say it's offensive, it's negative. >> well, first of all, you have to put it into context. if you read amy wax's book called the race wrongs and remedies. which is a spectacular book. very carrying. lays out arguments about affirmative action and talks quite directly about how. abby: how to fix the problems? >> the problems are mostly intractable. she talks about the problems in a way that are -- that is caring. ainsley: um-huh. >> there is no scintilla of racism on her part. she is deeply caring individual. she has received university teaching awards fro