. >> first of all you pointed to page 57, the joint appendix which shows the uplands at glen pines. there are pictures in the record ja17320 in the area that are at issue here. there are trees in the background that don't show a dense canopy. i don't want to say there is not forested land there. but i think one of the ways to look at it is, with the modifications be compatible with the existing use of the land? if you're operating a tree operation, cutting down and thinning trees as part of what you do. and it is not as if this would have to be done overnight. >> the problem with that is once you have the. you would need probably federal permits to do things like volume companies typically do. if you're asking for a federal permit, the whole point is you have to go through a fairly elaborate process. you might not get it at the end . or you won't have to go through the elaborate process and you will probably get one if it wasn't designated . >> as far as logging is concerned, the ongoing logging operations have not required any federal permit. it is only if the land owner wanted to