and glenn greenwald was her friend, became a co-author and cowriter. he also wrote to lenox about the nsa, and he brought in a pulitzer prize author who had about the nsa.ng he knew three people would be sympathetic to what he was about to do. in his first communications with them, he lied to them. he said he was a government employee -- which he was not -- who is a senior member of the intelligence community -- which he was not. he did not belong. 17 agencies make up the intelligence community and he did not belong to any of them. at the time, he was a system administrator working for an outside contractor of the nsa. >> let's introduce into the discussion now, the three people who were involved. this is from a "new york times" hosted skype discussion among the three. here is the first reaction from mark of "the new york times." he is no longer there, but he is writing a book. >> to latin america, where he was on a train to russia. the time he arrived in russia, the united states government canceled his passport. he deliberately did not bring any of t

host: here is glenn greenwald, from the same conversation that was held through "the new york times." glenn: the reason why nine or 10 months into the story we published many of hundreds of top secretive documents is because we're constantly engaged as our source we do in the process. what was nonnews worthy but will avoid harming innocent people. and i think we've done a very good job of that. it's the media that's been reporting it. there is zero, not a little bit but zero that a single story that was [inaudible] [inaudible] has caused harm to individuals or endanger national security in any way. all we give is vague things -- [inaudible] but nothing specific or or rete concrete about any harm being done. host: sir. dr. epstein: what glenn eenwald is saying is that the documents they published did not compromise any intelligence operation. a very respected blog, which is artly sponsored by brookings institute, found that was not true. they had compromised military secrets, agents' names, that they had blown ongoing operations, given away bases, compromised allies like the british in

i think that is what queen greenwald. -- glenn greenwald did.razil, andin writes for "the guardian" newspaper in london? dr. epstein: he moved to brazil for personal reasons. , i believe, still based there. i am much or he is still writing for "the guardian." he has his own website called -- internet by billionaire, and i think he spends most of his articles. >> did you ever speak to him? dr. epstein: no. desk personversus is laura poydras. what you know about her? she is ain: documentary filmmaker who, during the iraq war, was unfairly suspected of collaborating with the iraqi extremists, al qaeda. i do not think she was. and she was then on a watchlist and tracked, and got more and more concerned about the security of herself. she was spending five years on a nsa,ct to investigate the and she made a documentary, which i have seen and i like, called "citizen for," and again i think are documentary honestly reflected what snowden said. it was fairly edited and i think she deserves the oscars she won. from thousand 15 from the canadian broadcasti

where talking to journalist glenn greenwald.tay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. on wednesday, president donald trump ended a long-standing u.s. commitment to the establishment of a palestinian state saying he had no preference for either a one state or two state solution to the israeli-palestinian conflict. trump's comments came during the news conference at the white house with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. trump that we have a two state and one state, and i like the one that both parties like. i'm very happy with the one of both parties like. i can live with either white. i thought for a while the two state looked like it may be the easier of the two, but honestly, if bb and the palestinians, if israel and the palestinians are happy, i and happy with the one they like the best. as far as the embassy moving to jerusalem, i would love to see that happen. we are looking at a very, very strongly. we are looking at it

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joining her will be glenn greenwald, former congressman ron paul and andy levy.ight. >> a great president from humble roots... >> "abe lincoln, the rail-splitter" made him sound like a man of the people. >> is this the kind of thing that lincoln used as a young man? >> he would use mauls and mallets splitting fence rails, working around the farm. >> but did young abe swing this? >> it was just a relic that was around our house. we didn't really give a lot of thought to it. >> it's their strange inheritance, but it's never been put to the test. >> even though, in our minds, it was 100% real, just because we think so doesn't make it true. >> anybody could have carved their initials "a-l." how do you know it's really lincoln's? [ applause ] [ door creaks ] [ wind howls ] [ thunder rumbles ]

glenn greenwald wrote an articl article, he joins us now from rio de janeiro. , thank you for coming on. you had this line at the beginning of your piece, i recommend it to our viewers. hillary clinton won the popular vote and the singular charisma of barack obama -- in what way is it broken, exactly? it seems robust right now. >> there is obviously a lot of attention paid, hillary got more votes than donald which is true but it up scores a lot of critical facts. including the fact that obviously the democrats do not have control of either the senate or house, republicans do. they now have lost two-thirds of governorships which are also known the hands of the republican party. they are one statehouse away from enabling the republicans to convene a constitutional convention on their own because they will two-thirds of the state fully within their grasp. both houses of congress. it's a party that has collapsed as a national political force in the united states. it's not just the presidential election. >> but why? why exactly? it was still a close election, and the

when glenn greenwald was speaking at ucla if years ago he said as long as the united states has the military and economic preeminence in the world that it does now that it is very unlikely that george w. bush and dick cheney will ever be brought up on war crimes charges either domestically or internationally. you share that assessment? does thattent undercut the moral legitimacy of international efforts to bring war criminals to justice -- criminals to justice when african were criminals can be prosecuted but american ones can't? >> we have seen a number of human rights lawyers attempt to bring cases against the individuals known as the bush six. what we are seeing happen as we go after these really powerful political actors, what gives way is often not their cases but the law itself. there's a doctor known as universal jurisdiction. doctrine known as universal jurisdiction. there are some crimes that are so horrific that any country in the world should be able to hold trials for that wrongdoing. even if the crimes did not take place on the soil. lawyers have been tried to use that doctrine

pulitzer words of the produc prize winning journalist glenn greenwald.ed lieu, your democratic, smith from california. your response to this. you are praising the pressing the press has broken the story showing the importance of an independent india. what about the importance of whistleblowers that provided this information? this is clearly coming from the intelligence committee. what did the senate majority leader chuck schumer recently say? he was shocked how president trump was going after the intelligence community because he said, they will get you six ways from sunday. but what about the importance of was a blowers? >> let me first say congress has recognized the importance of whistleblowers for democracy. that is why congress passed the whistleblower's protection act as well as an enhancement to the act. i encourage all federal employees to read that law. in addition, there's a presidential directive -- i believe number 19 -- the provide certain protections when it comes to classified materials. it is important in a democracy that is people see ev

well, i would love to claim credit for that but, actually, i think a reporter by the name of glenn greenwald has got a relationship with, what's his name, assange, i think he actually coined the term. and i think it works. i don't think there's -- who's driving this business that the russians hacked the election? it's the democrat party. it's hillary, it's obama, it's all those people who just can't accept -- chris: and you think they're behind the leaks too? >> absolutely. of course they are. they're trying -- look, they can't win at the ballot box. you know they're down 1200 seats since 2010. they've become a marginal party electorally. all they've got is their embeds in the bureaucracy and the judiciary, and they're pulling out all the stops, there's no question. this business that the russians hacked the election, this is serious, serious allegation that is impossible. the russians could not have had any impact whatsoever on voting, either how they were cast or how they were counted. in fact, if you want to say they did, they did their job. hillary won the popular vote. how could they ha

well, i would love to claim credit for that but, actually, i think a reporter by the name of glenn greenwaldpt who has got a relationship with, what's his name, assange, i think he actually coined the term. and i think it works. i don't think there's -- who's driving this business that the russians hacked the election? it's the democrat party. it's hillary, it's obama, it's all those people who just can't accept -- chris: and you think they're behind the leaks too? >> absolutely. of course they are. they're trying -- look, they can't win at the ballot box. you know they're down 1200 seats since 2010. they've become a marginal party electorally. all they've got is their embeds in the bureaucracy and the judiciary, and they're pulling out all the stops, there's no question. this business that the russians hacked the election, this is serious, serious allegation that is impossible. the russians could not have had any impact whatsoever on voting, either how they were cast or how they were counted. in fact, if you want to say they did, they did their job. hillary won the popular vote. how could t

and he initiated that effort even though he was not familiar initially with the glenn greenwald. testifi he was introduced to them. we then looked through the documents. why do people provide the information? there are a variety of reasons. in the case of snowden, he felt that the government had gone through extreme with regard to surveillance and that general motors -- motivated him. why do people leak in the realm of intelligence is reason they leak in other realms and they have reasons for doing that. it could be a broad range of reasons for doing so. we want to know what the motive is but we want to evaluate the information in its own right. >> david sanger talked about a drop box that the times has offered to people and he indicated that there was a higher percentage of available information he thought there would be. he said he thought it would be 99% of non-information. he sees 10% of useable information. >> they have something similar to us. i don't flknow what the volume . we have people that review it. it's sirlated to the people who examine it. it's i don't know what t

highly classified and he initiated that effort even though he was not familiar initially with glenn greenwald or bart geldman and e introduced to them by a filmmaker barbara portis and that is an instance when somebody came forward to us, and we then looked through the documents. why do people provide the information? well, there is a variety of reasons. obvious obviously, in the case of snowden, he felt that the government had gone to the extreme in terms of amount of surveillance of individuals both within this country, and as well as in other countries, and that that motivated him. there are other people who may feel aggrieved for one reason or another. a and the reason that people flaek the realmle of intelligence is probably the similar of other realms, and that they just have some reason for doing so, and it could be a broad range of reasons for doing, so and we want to know what the motive is, and ultimately, we want to evaluate the information in its own ri t right. >> and david sanger from the new york times in the last panel talked about the drop box that the "times" has now offered