both minorities and civil liberties to debate these questions i'm joined from rio de janeiro by glenn greenwald journalist all thought and co-founder of the intercept and the new york by stanley fish a u.s. legal scholar and public intellectual and author of the book there's no such thing as free speech and it's a good thing to thank you both for joining me on upfront glenn let me start with you most people would agree that free speech is integral to democracy and should be defended as much as possible but does not really mean that we also have to protect the rights of racists islamophobia anti semites homophobes missile genesis to spread some pretty poisonous and hate filled ideas is a lot of misunderstanding. a distortion even of what free speech is supposed to be about no quite the opposite 1st of all the minute that you start empowering state institutions or government officials to punish people or do imprison people or to bar them from expressing certain ideas because the majority or the government dislikes those ideas you no longer have free speech in any meaningful sense all you have is

both minorities and civil liberties to debate these questions i'm joined from rio de janeiro by glenn greenwald journalist lawyer author and co-founder of the intercept and the new york by stanley fish a us legal scholar and public intellectual and author of the book there's no such thing as free speech and it's a good thing to thank you both for joining me on upfront glenn let me start with you most people would agree that free speech is integral to democracy and should be defended as much as possible but does that really mean that we also have to protect the rights of racists islamophobia anti semites homophobes missile journalists to spread some pretty poisonous and hate filled ideas is a lot of misunderstanding and distortion even of what free speech is supposed to be about no quite the opposite. 1st of all the minute that you start empowering state institutions or government officials to punish people or do imprison people or to bar them from expressing certain ideas because the majority or the government dislikes those ideas you no longer have free speech in any meaningful sense all you h

it's quite something, serious reporters -- people like glenn greenwald were saying, literally sayinghat joe biden is senile, the democratic party is about to anoint a candidate who doesn't have all his faculties, i think this is going to be an increasingly big issue and you can talk about it jokingly as the president did there but i think you're going to find a lot of people within the democratic party really questioning whether they should be celebrating. if one final point i just want to add, we should remember the winner of the california primary looks like it's donald trump. he's got more votes even though no one needed to go and vote for the top democrats combined so far. >> shannon: you've heard the critiques of joe biden, people saying that is just joe. there is no marked change but down to joe biden and potentially bernie sanders, we don't know if bloomberg and warren are going to stick around -- if you're down to those two, is that what you hope for is a final choice for democratic voters? >> i would hope for the democrats nominating somebody who will win and in the last fox