. >> have you been playing glenn mulcaire's legal fees during civil actions. >> i don't know the civil actions. i do know certain civil fees were paid for mr. mulcaire by the company and i was as surprised and shocked to learn that as you are. >> can you understand that people might ask why a company might wish to pay the legal fees of a convicted felon who has been involved intimately involved in the destruction of your reputation, to buy the corporation's violence? >> i can't understand that. that's exactly why i asked the question. that's exactly what -- when the allegations came out, i said are we doing this? is this what the company is doing? and on legal advice, you know, and again, i don't want to be legalistic, and i'm not a lawyer, but these are serious litigations, it's important for all of the evidence from all of the defendants to get to court at the right time. and the strong advice was that from time to time it's important and customary, even, to pay codefendants legal fees and i have to rest on counselor's advice on some of these serious litigation matters. >> is the con

the question have i paid all mr mulcaire's legal fees. >> have you been paying legal fees for glenn mulcaire during the course of the civil actions? >> i don't know the details of the civil actions, but i do know that certain legal fees were paid for mr mulcaire by the company. i was as surprised and shocked to learn that as you are. >> can you understand that people might ask why a company might wish to pay the legal fees of a convicted felon, who has been intimately involved in the destruction of your reputation, if it were not to buy his co-operation and silence? >> no, it is not. i can understand that, and that is exactly why i asked the question-when the allegations came out, i said, "how can we? are we doing this? is this what the company is doing?" on legal advice-again, i do not want to be legalistic; i am not a lawyer, but these are serious litigations and it is important for all of the evidence from all of the defendants to get to court at the right time. the strong advice was that, from time to time, it is important, and customary even, to pay a co- defendant's legal fees. i have

other than steve whitmore, jonathan reese and glenn mulcaire? >> he was the one i was aware of at the time. as i said, the first time i heard about glenn mulcaire was when he was arrested in 2006. >> is it your belief that the paper used other private investigators, that you just can't remember today? >> no. i remember -- it isn't that i can't remember. you have the same information as i have, which is from the operation. >> thank you. one last question. do you have any regrets? >> well, of course i have regrets. the idea that milly dowler's phone was accessed by someone being paid by the "news of the world" or even worse, authorized by someone at the "news of the world" is abhorrent to me as it is to everyone in this room, and it is ultimate regret, the speed at which we found out and tried to found out, the investigation has been too slow. i think james and rupert both accepted that earlier. we are endeavoring or they are endeavoring now, i've left the company, to continue to investigate but of course, there are regrets. >> thank you. louise m

. >> it is alleged that this man, a private investigator glenn mulcaire, carried out the hacking and deleted some of the voice mail messages to make space for new ones. the new allegations were of great concern and and they will cooperate fully with police, they said. when the family was told about the alleged hacking in april, now it's only just become public knowledge. rupert murdoch's chief executive in the u.k. is looking into this and robert murdoch is looking into taking full control of the company, a move that requires government approval. de ed miliband says it was beyond belief that anyone would undertake such a cruel and immoral act. but some in politics say political leaders have been too easily cowed by murdoch's enterprises. >> politicians are frightened of news international and they need to act. but there are calls for full inquiry once the criminal investigation has been completed into what happened in the milly dowler case and many others. bbc news reporting. >> we can speak to our political correspondent in our london studio. this brings together two of the most exp

i didn't know glenn mulcaire. there were other private investigators i did know about and have heard about, but he wasn't known about them. >> do you suspect that you might have received information as a result of glenn mulcair's methods? >> i know it is an entirely appropriate question, but i can only keep saying the same answer. glenn mulcaire, as i am aware, worked on and off with the "news of the world" i think in the late 1990's and continued through until 2006 when he was arrested. obviously, if he worked for the "news of the world" for that time, he was involved. i think the judge said in 200 7 when glenn mulcaire was arrested that he had a perfectly legitimate contract with the "news of the world" for research and investigative work. the judge said that repeatedly throughout the trial. that's all i can tell you. >> did you ever have any contact directly or through others with jonathan rees? >> no. >> i heard a lot recently about jonathan rees. i watched the "panorama" program, as we all did. he wasn't a na

and my voicemails by glenn mulcaire and at the same knowledge of roanoke to good and whether you can say the myth now clearly we have now seen evidence that that is not the case. but it wasn't a myth. >> thinks to it leaves a good description of the paper was left in the office, we've had a count or "the sunday times" in the last few days that there were a number of gatekeepers on the new status with your time and the names were thoughts friendship, clive goodman, james winthrop and so many times it was accurate. and yet, we're still being asked to believe that you'd be added very simply didn't know what he was up to. >> what, i can't comment on what others knew and when they knew it and how they do it. i can only tell what i knew while i was at "the news of the world" and editor of "the sun." as chief executive, i can account for my actions and to the bottom of this story. in 2006, for my own personal point of view, i was the editor at "the sun" and was approached by the police to explain actions unmanned always mails and it reported that back to become print any subsequent investig

. >> i think if you remember at the time, when glenn mulcaire was arrested in 2006, it was the beliefd basically the belief that the police that they would be thoroughly investigated. in fact, previous to the arrest they had been investigating the situation in order to make the arrest. and so, i understand why you are using the language, but that was the reality. we were told in the trial in 2007 by dan glenn mulcaire said the income he stated that he didn't start accessing voice mails until 2004 and that's what he said. that's what he told the trial. and after 2007, there were committee hearings and news international conducted the internal investigation you covered extensively in the previous discussion and the police closed the inquiry. from my own knowledge in 2006 and because my own phone and as everyone knows now was asked as by glenn mulcaire, my own voicemails are accessed by glenn mulcaire appeared on a regular basis i had the same information as everyone else and whether you can save them if now, clearly we have now seen as evidence that that is not the case. but it wasn't i

judge said in 2007, which again, we may disagree with that now, but the judge said in 2007 when glenn mulcaire was convicted that he had a perfectly legitimate contract with the "news of the world" for research and investigative work, and the judge said that i think quite repeatedly throughout the trial. so that's what i can tell you. >> did you have any contact directly or through others with jonathan reese? >> no. >> do you know about jonathan reese? >> i do, again, i heard a lot recently about jonathan reese. i watched the panorama program as we all did. he wasn't -- he wasn't a name familiar with me. i am told that he rejoined the "news of the world" in 2005, 2006, and he worked for the "news of the world" and many other newspapers in the late 1990s. that's my information. >> do you find it peculiar that having received a sentence for a serious criminal offense, he was then rehired by the paper? >> it does seem extraordinary. >> do you know who hired him? >> no, i don't. >> do you know who signed his contract? >> no. i'm sorry. >> have you conducted an investigation for six months, did you

going to say on the payments you made to your staff, as it happens, going back to the trial of glenn mulcaire and clive goodman, clive goodman was pleading guilty to a criminal offense. did news international pay clive goodman's legal fees for his trial? >> i do want to be clear the chronology, first of all, i did not have firsthand knowledge of that... those times. remember, my involvement in these matters started in 2008 and in 2007, i believe, december, i was wholly focused in my role as chief executive of a public company and i wasn't involved in those things. >> who would know? >> but i can try to answer the first question, first. to say that it is customary in certain instances with employees, or with others in the litigation, to pay some set of legal expenses, on behalf of of those to try to bring all of the evidence to a court, and so on, and that has all been done in accordance with... since any involvement that i have had any knowledge, is in accordance with legal advice about what the proper way to do things was, but i cannot speak to the 2007 arrangements. i don't have first hand

quite an extensive amount now particularly the last six months of investigating the story, and glenn mulcaire i am aware wrote on and off in the news of the world i think in of late nineties and continued through until 2006 when he was arrested. so obviously, if he worked for the news of the world for that time, he was involved, and i think that the judge said in 2007, which again, we may disagree with that now, the judge did in 2,007 when he was convicted that he had a perfectly legitimate contract in the world for research and investigative work and said that i think quite repeatedly throughout the draft. so, that's all i can tell you. [inaudible] >> again, a lot recently. i watched the program as we all do. he wasn't familiar with me. i told that he rejoined the news of the world in 2005, 2006, and he worked for news of the world and many other newspapers in the late 1990's. that's my information. >> did you find the census to received a criminal sentence he was then rehired by the paper. >> do you know who hired him? do you know who signed the contract? [inaudible] you did not find either