you think glenn mulcare would deny that he ever met you? >> i'm sure he would. although i mean -- yes. it's the truth. >> okay. were you aware of the arrangement news group newspapers had with mr. mulcare while you were editor of the "news" and the "sun"? >> no. i didn't know he was one of the detectives used, no. >> you didn't know he was on the payroll? >> no. in fact i first heard his name in 2006. >> did you receive any information that originated from glenn mulcare or his methods? >> what, to me? >> you. >> to me personally? >> you as editor. did anyone bring you information as a result of his methods? >> i know it seems entirely appropriate question but i can only keep saying the same answer. i didn't know glenn mulcare -- i never heard the name until 2006. there were other private investigators that i did know about and had heard about, but he wasn't one of them. >> now that you know what you know, do you suspect that you might have received information on the basis of stuff gathered by -- >> now i know what i know is that, i mean, this is one of the diffi