for those goign in that are not doing that homework, it's not going to be pretty. >> spreads have been wider. do you anticipate high-yield relative to leverage it loans -- >> i think it's going to be in high-yield. that's for a couple reasons. high yield spreads are on 50 basis point in the index. rates are up. i think that we are getting to the point where a few interest rate hikes down the road, the fed is going to be done. there is going to resume -- be some dropping. the technical point, the loans get called away. you are not going to participate in that interest rate rally. >> to be clear, you don't think we have seen the most crisis times of high-yield? >> i don't. ig is different, there are good opportunities. the spreads were incredibly tight earlier this year. in high-yield's, if the fed succeeds in not killing the economy and we have a moderation in growth and this goes on for a few more years, then i think the technical could move the market quite a bit. >> do you share that view? >> as the fed continues to raise rates potentially. i think one of the effects to be aware of i