in fact they uncovered one of the barry goldwater's staffers was a gate which goldwater knew they werening to use that goldwater wandered h wonded they know that? he called a senior person in the johnson campaign and said do not destroy this man's life. do not destroy this man's life but they threaten to do it ultimately they didn't. johnson was so paranoid about the kennedys he had the fbi sent a team of men to the 1964 democratic convention in atlantic city and then attorney journal robert kennedy was unaware of it so he directly had the fbi monitor, send men to his own convention's own nominating convention they tapped martin luther king's hotel room. they bugged it they bugged the rooms of other civil rights leaders attending the convention that information went to johnson he wanted to know all about it in 1968 after hubert humphrey received the nomination for president lbj had the fbi tapping his valance because johnson wanted to know if humphrey was loyal to him including regarding the vietnam war. surveilled is in the fbi the irs the cia and other federal agencies did you know a

republicans because the republican party who was not in a big way taking a position on this, very goldwaterresident in 64 actually opposed the civil rights act. his argument was this was the job of the states not the federal government. when ronald reagan ran for president in 1980, the first speech he gave as an official candidate of the party was in philadelphia, mississippi which is the site of the murder of three civil rights workers, a sure, cheney and goodwin. his entire speech to an all-white white audience was about states rights which was code back then for we never should've passed that civil rights act and we should go back to an apartheid united states. it's been pretty much that way ever since. trump has tripled down on it. i do not have an explanation beyond for this very clear racial divide that exists. beyond just the shocking reality that at least half of whit

for goldwater, 1964. so it was a conservative platform cut spending, domestic spending, at least cut taxes. platform embraced the kemp tax cut. the platform embraced a promise of gaining military superiority of the soviet union, and it became much more socially conservative than republican platforms had been in the past. so it became unambiguous, mostly pro-life on abortion and back away from the party's longtime commitment to the equal rights amendment. the democrats were in a bit more flux. they they were more liberal than the republicans, for sure. but carter had moved the party somewhat to the right on some issues, on economic issues. for example, in the spring of 1980, he actually supported some cuts in social programs after the soviet invasion of afghanistan, and he did a major turn around on foreign policy and became much more in favor of stronger defense. standing up to the soviets and, you know, at no point was he, as you could say, full, full throated about that as as far as reagan and the repub

for goldwater, 1964. so it was a conservative platform cut spending, domestic spending, at least cut taxes. platform embraced the kemp tax cut. the platform embraced a promise of gaining military superiority of the soviet union, and it became much more socially conservative than republican platforms had been in the past. so it became unambiguous, mostly pro-life on abortion and back away from the party's longtime commitment to the equal rights amendment. the democrats were in a bit more flux. they they were more liberal than the republicans, for sure. but carter had moved the party somewhat to the right on some issues, on economic issues. for example, in the spring of 1980, he actually supported some cuts in social programs after the soviet invasion of afghanistan, and he did a major turn around on foreign policy and became much more in favor of stronger defense. standing up to the soviets and, you know, at no point was he, as you could say, full, full throated about that as as far as reagan and the repub

for goldwater, 1964. so it was a conservative platform cut spending, domestic spending, at least cut taxes. platform embraced the kemp tax cut. the platform embraced a promise of gaining military superiority of the soviet union, and it became much more socially conservative than republican platforms had been in the past. so it became unambiguous, mostly pro-life on abortion and back away from the party's longtime commitment to the equal rights amendment. the democrats were in a bit more flux. they they were more liberal than the republicans, for sure. but carter had moved the party somewhat to the right on some issues, on economic issues. for example, in the spring of 1980, he actually supported some cuts in social programs after the soviet invasion of afghanistan, and he did a major turn around on foreign policy and became much more in favor of stronger defense. standing up to the soviets and, you know, at no point was he, as you could say, full, full throated about that as as far as reagan and the repub

allvin: all the requirements goldwater nichols enabled was to say to ensure that service capabilities, because they still have the requirement and resources and ability to purchase equipment to equip the forces. what we need is to ensure those capabilities meet joint requirements and i will tell you what that there's been a history of that almost -- in some cases it is pejoratively referred to as a rubberstamp. ok, we are going to validate it. recent vice chairs of the joint chiefs of staff have been disciplined about making sure we hold services more accountable to more serious requirements and that's a good thing, to ensure that as we have this new thing called the joint war planning concept, that we are truly getting service capabilities that fit. that is helpful. some of the challenges having that tension of not necessarily raining in the services as service chief but ensuring they can defend how that fits into a joint were fighting concept. we have not had one for a while, so i'm optimistic about that, to be a northstar to help all the services who are well-meaning and culturally

example of this is after the 1964 election when lyndon johnson did so powerfully well against barry goldwater, james reston wrote in the new york times that the republican party would be out of power for a generation. within 48 months, i think the republicans won 60 seats in the house and ronald reagan was elected governor of california. so there is a push and a pull in american politics and that's fine, right? that's what i want, is i want, i believe in that push and pull, i believe in having an arena of disagreement and dissent. to have that arena requires an infrastructure of a common understanding that there are rules that must be obeyed, and that is the question that confronts the nation at this hour and will for the next 48 months, is will the incumbent president not do what he has said he wants to do? again, this is not perspective. i am simply quoting what the president elect has said. - the only other president to win non-consecutive terms is grover cleveland, and his second term in office proved to be far less popular and less successful than his first term. he returned to office as

barry goldwater ran for president in '64, opposed the civil rights act. his argument was that this is the job of the states, not the federal government. the old states rights arguments. when ronald reagan ran for president in 1980 the first speech he gave as an official candidate of the party was in mississippi the site of the murder of three civil rights workers, sherwarmer, cheney and goodman and his speech to an all white audience was about states rights which was, you know, code back then for we never should have passed that dam civil rights act and go back to apartheid in the united states. it's been pretty much that way ever since and trump has pled down on it. i don't have an explanation beyond -- for this very, very clear racial divide that has existed beyond just shocking reality that at least half of white america and arguably a little more than that is just deeply racist. >> we're taking your calls for questions for our guests. democrats call in at 202-748-800, republicans 202-748-801 and independents 202-748-8002. areas where democrats have lo

. - [narrator] the '64 election was between lbj and the far-right republican senator barry goldwater.ng) - you know, this square-jawed, blunt-speaking arizona senator comes on the scene in a serious way in the early 1960s with a commitment to a kind of unfettered free-market capitalism and the most kind of hawkish position you can imagine with respect to the cold war. - one. two. three. four. - one of my favorite commercials of all time, it's haunting, haunting. - five. - everyone is concerned about a nuclear holocaust in 1964 and johnson centers that for the american people in this ad with this young girl who's playing out in a field and counting down from 10 to 1 with this looming danger of a nuclear attack. - [tv voice] 2, 1...zero. (loud explosion) - [president johnson] these are the stakes to make a world in which all of god's children can live or to go into the dark. we must either love each other or we must die. - [announcer] vote for president johnson on november 3rd. - it's a very powerful ad. it's controversial. it will only air once but the reality is it only needed to air

february 11, 1965, just after johnson was inaugurated after he won a landslide victory over barry goldwaterlady bird johnson wrote in her book, i heard him say something today that i thought he would only say to me. he said to hubert humphrey, his vice president, i am not qualified to be commander-in-chief. i find sending these boys over there to fight and die so difficult. that was exactly the time when he was initiated -- initiating the first marines to land on the mainland in vietnam and begin the bombing campaign. think about that. he said he was not qualified by these -- he did it anyway. nobody said to him, mr. president, let's get out. it was a tragedy. question about it. >> y he put online two hours of audio interviews you did with robert mcnamara. at the end of the audio interview is this. peter: robert mcnamara died in july of 2009. the history of the vietnam conflict will always be a tragedy for the u.s.. as well as a devastating time for vietnam. bob was able to explain to the extent he could that it would never be enough. in his closing session with us, he said we participated

barry goldwater who ran for president in '64, actually opposed the civil rights act. his argument was this is the job of the states, not the federal government. the old states rights argument. when ronald reagan ran for president in 1980, the first speech he gave as the head of the party was in mississippi which was the site of the three civil rights orkers. his speech to the all white audience which was code back then for we never should have passed that damn civil rights act and go back to apartheid in the united states. it has been that way since and trump has tripled down on it. i don't have an explanation beyond for this -- for this very, very clear racial divide that has existed since '64. beyond just the shocking reality of at least half of white america and arguably a little more of that, is just deeply racist. >> we'll take your calls for questions for our guests. 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001 and independents 202-748-8002. tom, i want to talk about the coalition the democrats could potentially create moving forward given what they've learned. pete d

and i think it was started by all the goldwater nichols was was enacted in 1986 and i went to the war college in 81. so i was a little ahead of that you were horrified that legislation you must be joint and there are some of the things you must do but it was a good thing to do because that counted then as a joint experience to some degree. yeah. okay do you discuss your junior officer assignment? it's a it's a whole litany and how that kind of came about. well, the thing that's interesting that those that don't know when i got promoted to brigadier general, everybody is congratulating you and i got a letter from, the chief of staff of the air force, i said, wow and the first paragraph says, congratulations you've been you've been selected promotion to brigadier general second paragraph. it'd bad form for you to know the. number four the personnel officer general officer you serve at the pleasure the chief and the secretary of the air force. and we have lots of age and not enough officers. you'll serve where we want you to go. you should not try to manipulate your assignment so that wa

mind we have any organizational changes on the horizon or if you had a wish list, what is the next goldwater nichols that will allow the military to really take it strategic effectiveness to the next level? thank you. chair brown: one of the areas we have done some word game and exercising on is -- as we look at how we are organized for were fighting --is at the right way to do it? or if you are going to have multi domains, you have several multi-domain commanders that can do a little bit of everything. and that will come again some organizational friction. you have two look at the forest because if you were going to be a multi-unit you have to spend some time working with the other domains and if you spend your time in one domain you won't be good at a multi-domain commander it forced us to spend more time in joint positions which helps us get down that path. that is one example of how we have looked at it. we have talked about our command structure and the fact that we have --. especially as you look at the threat and challenge we have. they don't care which four stars are in that part of

the republican party and its leaders were ready to convict richard nixon, in a senate trial, barry goldwaterthe former nominee, led a delegation of republican senators and congressmen, to the oval office, to tell richard nixon he must resign or they would see that he would be convicted in the senate of the united states. you saw with mitch mcconnell, he did the exact opposite, and indeed, there was reason and a strong case against the president of the united states, really, the first seditious president of the united states, as woodward and i wrote in the 50th anniversary edition of all the presidents men and yet here, this formally seditious president of the united states has now been elected with this amazing coalition, that the press didn't see coming, that the democrats didn't see coming, let's hope, maybe he will read the constitution of the united states and say, this is an opportunity for me to do things, not my way, but the way of the law, the way of our traditions in a democratic country. but also, i think it's really important that we remember, donald trump has shown great instinct

meeting in new york city at rockefeller's penthouse which infuriates the conservatives and leads to goldwaterortin of a pretender candidacy the conventn where he challenges the delegates grow up conservatives who will take this party back is exactly what happened in 64. but then, who does richard nixon choose for the vice presidency and then, he's trying to please liberal wing of the party. and nowadays we say liberal wing of the republican party, but back then it was right substantial and he ends up offering the vice presidency to rockefeller and he turns aow del because hey, and rockefeller is her nixon is even nominated and seconded by really clear cut liberals in the republican party and jacob of new york, and another ofca california, then, eventually thanks lodge, former senator from massachusetts and invested or who turns out to be a horrible choice. >> was in regard lodge part of the liberal wing. >> absolutely. and he had been dwight eisenhower campaign manager at 9052 convention which meant that he was going up against robert—- conservative forces may kind of still, they hold it agai

he made on barry goldwater's behalf against a growing government and deeply skeptical of farm subsidies and programs like medicare and social security, warning of socialism that would doom the american republic to a future of tyranny and unfreedom. but of course, during his two terms in office, reagan never seriously tried to repeal social security or medicare. in fact, federal debt held by the public as a percentage of gdp grew under reagan. it's worth noting that the only president to balance the budget since 1969 was bill clinton ramaswamy and musk have both taken to posting a clip of economist milton friedman on their social media, in which he argues for a very limited role for the federal government. ironically, this role would not seem to envision any support for things like evs and civilian space programs which have helped create the bulk of elon musk's fortune. but what decades of public policy seem to have revealed is that friedman's vision has little support in the u.s.. we are where we are because the american public has voted for republican levels of taxation and democratic

and that's actually a very old idea on the american right going all the way back to barry goldwater and the and there's a lot of continuity there. you know, we think about what birtherism was really about. and so election denial was just kind of the latest, greatest version of that. and trump was the person who had the political talent to elevate that from marginal view to a mainstream view. and i think where this ties into to of latino voters, i think there was this idea earlier that democrats had. right. that you cast donald trump as a strong man or as this powerful figure that could bring america back to those days. the theory when in the democratic party was that that would really, really. create a lot of rejection among latinos. right. why? because because of our very history with authoritarianism right and so i think for fruit for many years that was a campaign strategy. you know if you go miami dade county, obviously didn't work. but if you go to miami dade county, it was, you know, donald trump is on the ballot you know, it was an outsider. but i think what they failed to unders

before the age of charlatans there were real conservatives like barry goldwater, who, when asked to campaign against gays in the military, said you don't need to be straight to fight and die for your country. you just need to shoot straight. democrats were caught flat footed by the gop attack on the trans community. the new york times reported that the harris campaign could not agree on a response to the they them trump commercial. one idea was to note that taxpayer funded transition surgery for inmates was in place when donald trump was president, and in the end, the harris campaign just decided to condemn negative ads without mentioni pennsylvania governor, head of the dnc ed rendell called this malpractice for the harris campaign to not have responded directly to the they them ad. here's what kamala harris should have said or at least what i would say first, that upon reflection taxpayer funds should not be used for the transition of the incarcerated. second, when it comes to athletics, the goal should be inclusion but not at the expense of fairness. according to swimming world magazine,

the new yorker, the election has finished the goldwater school of political reaction.his is surely a liberal ethic of the late 19th century, was a conservative one and he goes on to say many people said, the two-party system itself, finished. now, goldwater's landslide was a massive landslide and yet two years later, the reagan revolution begins in california and let's talk about, you can find one election after another, where overplaying one's hand leads to a massive backlash. >> and you know what's really interesting, joe, lbj won by 15 million votes, he could say to mr. trump, that is a real landslide, but he knew right from the start, that wasn't going to last. he took his staff together and said okay, i won by 15 million, 2 million of those were just because they didn't like goldwater so they're not mine. i'm going to have a fight with the press, another 2 million and then almost anticipating you said and i might have to send boys to foreign lands, so you get your off the ground and get that program through as soon as it can. the incredible thing that happened was

""the new yorker,"" this finished the goldwater school of political reaction.s is a conservative won as was in the 19th century. he talks about how the republican party is destroyed for a generation. then, of course, he takes you to ronald reagan in a strip mall parking lot in orange county, and something is happening on the ground. that happens for every party. there is always renewal. but as we said last hour, perhaps the democratic party should go to france for a couple of weeks and figure out what went wrong. because when you're a political party and only 32% of americans identify with you, that ain't the presidential candidate. that ain't the city councilman. that's a bigger structural problem with the democratic party and what it stands for with working class americans of all colors. >> maybe after they spend a little time in france, go to some of those counties and those towns that they're so shocked that they were hemorrhaged on tuesday night. that might be a better visit for all of them. i'm also thinking, joe, as you tell that story, about karl rove a

in 1966 -- or 1964 after barry goldwater got defeated, you should go back and look at the headlines aboutican party. and two years later what happened? ronald reagan started the reagan revolution in california. you can say the same thing after watergate and in 1984 ronald reagan wins 49 states. everybody is talking about the san francisco democrats, they're going to be in a hole for the next generation. 1986 democrats shocked the world, they take control of the united states senate. we could do this over and over again in 2004 you had george w. bush's team talking about a permanent republican majority in 2004. in 2006 nancy pelosi was speaker of the house. in 2008 barack obama gets elected and we hear about a rising ascendancy. this is going to be the democrats in control for the next 30 years. two years later the tea party wins, saying we're finished with washington and the way they do business there. we're here for good. two years later barack obama is elected president of the united states. again, so, yes, democrats, independents, republicans will learn from this and they will look at

reagan, who obviously the conservative natives, really wanted after they went over the cliff with goldwater losing in a landslide in 1964. i think they were hoping on a ronald reagan, but they they knew that reagan wasn't battle tested yet in 68 hadn't run a national campaign. he hadn't had a lot of national scrutiny. so i think the agreement that nixon and reagan had was if reagan didn't have the nomination largely sewn up by oregon, the next big primary was california. and reagan was free to move in. but we never got there because nixon kept it going. and you think that was a a in formal agreement between nixon and reagan? well, i can't point you to, you know, hard records or evidence, but there were there were interviews at the time reagan was meeting with represen natives of he was talking to the rockefeller side. and, of course, the media had this idea of a dream team of rock of fellow reagan campaign. and i think, you know, that might have been unstoppable during a general election. there's just one problem. you know, during the primaries, the liberal supporters of rockefeller really

burst on to national political scene, giving his his time for choosing address on behalf of barry goldwater in 64. and, you know, people forget just how radical reagan was by the early 1960s that he was, you know, claiming that every piece of social welfare legislation was going to lead america to communism. he was claiming that medicare and medicaid would be the end of freedom in america. he called it socialized medicine. he also had a weakness, as i discovered in the course of my book research for quoting these apocryphal quotes attributed to communist leaders explaining their dastoor the plot to destroy freedom america by advancing social welfare legislation, often with from the likes of lenin and bukhara and stalin and others, all of which had one thing in common. they were phony, they were made up. these were largely these were largely concocted by the john birch society to impugn democrats as being, you know, traitors and with with the soviet union and reagan eagerly repeated this stuff in the early 1960s. so in many ways, you know, you can say that they're you can see the continuity

republicans because the republican party who was not in a big way taking a position on this, very goldwater president in 64 actually opposed the civil rights act. his argument was this was the job of the states not the federal government. when ronald reagan ran for president in 1980, the first speech he gave as an official candidate of the party was in philadelphia, mississippi which is the site of the murder of three civil rights workers, a sure, cheney and goodwin. his entire speech to an all-white white audience was about states rights which was code back then for we never should've passed that civil rights act and we should go back to an apartheid united states. it's been pretty much that way ever since. trump has tripled down on it. i do not have an explanation beyond for this very clear racial divide that exists. beyond just the shocking reality that at least half of white america is just deeply racist. >> we will be taking your calls and questions for our guests, democrats you can call in at 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001 and independents 202-748-8002. now tom we've talked ab

republicans because the republican party who was not in a big way taking a position on this, very goldwateror president in 64 actually opposed the civil rights act. his argument was this was the job of the states not the federal government. when ronald reagan ran for president in 1980, the first speech he gave as an official candidate of the party was in philadelphia, mississippi which is the site of the murder of three civil rights workers, a sure, cheney and goodwin. his entire speech to an all-white white audience was about states rights which was code back then for we never should've passed that civil rights act and we should go back to an apartheid united states. it's been pretty much that way ever since. trump has tripled down on it. i do not have an explanation beyond for this very clear racial divide that exists. beyond just the shocking reality that at least half of white america is just deeply racist. >> we will be taking your calls and questions for our guests, democrats you can call in at 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001 and independents 202-748-8002. now tom we've talked

barry goldwater won only one state against lyndon johnson.des allowing a candidate or an elected president to claim a mandate. i think the danger for the president, or his team at least, might make the same mistake joe biden made. joe biden won a narrow victory, convincing perhaps, but narrow in 2020, and once he got control of the senate and had control of both houses, he started thinking that he was going to be. new fdr and was going to pass all kinds of great social legislation, some of the results at which were an outbreak of inflation in which his candidacy and campaign never recovered. you have to be careful about these things. mandates, real mandates, are rare. and landslides are perhaps even rarer. the president would be wise to talk about what an enormous mandate he has and landslide. that can lead to trouble. >> that's a guy who has been around washington for a very long time, willie, and has seen this. i have to say, even when you have the biggest landslides in american history, right, a mandate isn't a mandate. 1964, lbj, 49 to 50

and that's actually a very old idea on the american right going all the way back to barry goldwater and the and there's a lot of continuity there. you know, we think about what birtherism was really about. and so election denial was just kind of the latest, greatest version of that. and trump was the person who had the political talent to elevate that from marginal view to a mainstream view. and i think where this ties into to of latino voters, i think there was this idea earlier that democrats had. right. that you cast donald trump as a strong man or as this powerful figure that could bring america back to those days. the theory when in the democratic party was that that would really, really. create a lot of rejection among latinos. right. why? because because of our very history with authoritarianism right and so i think for fruit for many years that was a campaign strategy. you know if you go miami dade county, obviously didn't work. but if you go to miami dade county, it was, you know, donald trump is on the ballot you know, it was an outsider. but i think what they failed to unders

they had a secret meeting at rockefeller's penthouse which infewer infuriates barry goldwater, and challenges them, grow up, conservatives or we'll take this party back and that is what happens in '64. but then who does richard nixon choose for the vice-presidency and then he is trying to ameliorate and please the liberal wing of the party. now days we say what liberal wing of the republican party? but back then it was quite substantial and he ends up offering the vice-presidency to nelson rockefeller and he turns it down, he's rockefeller. and nixon is nominated and seconded by clear-cut liberals in the party. hatchfield, jabitz of new york and takes senator lodge from massachusetts, ambassador, turns out to be horrible voice. >> was henry cabot lodge part of the liberal wing? >> absolutely. and he had been dwight eisenhower's campaign manager at the 1952 convention which meant he was going up against the robert taft conservative forces and they kind of still held it against him because that was a very contested and nasty nomination battle. >> david, you had mentioned earlier that nelson roc