gorbachev. mikhail gorbachev gained great respect for ronald ronald and they were able to work together to bring down the berlin wall. ronald reagan was someone who never used the word "i," as well you know. and he was someone who didn't worry about who got the credit. he just wanted to get the job done. i think that's a complete different way of doing things with donald trump. it's about i not we. >> this was donald trump talking about your father on "meet the press" back in january. >> take a look at ronald reagan. he was a somewhat liberal democrat. he was a liberal democrat and he became a fairly conservative, not overly, but fairly conservative republican. and as we grow older -- >> i'm struck by the fact that some people analogize donald trump as a reality tv star and businessman who is qualified to be president and they say, well, look at ronald reagan. he was a tv star. he was a two-term governor of california and spent years on the circuit writing his own speeches on a number of foreign policy and domestic issues. >> absolutely right. he was president of the screen actors guild in the 1940s and 1950s. he wasn't like an overnight conservative. and back then, if people want to do some fact checking, you know, a liberal back in the 1940s would probably be more conservative today. you could look at john f. kennedy who would be considered a conservative today. nancy would have agreed with me my father would have had trouble gaining the nomination of the republican party today the way it stands and that's really unfortunate. >> michael reagan, thanks for joining us today as we wait for donald trump to arrive and deliver this foreign policy speech. donald trump also says bernie sanders has given him a playbook for how to attack hillary clinton in their possible general election matchup. let's watch. >> bernie sanders has a message that is interesting. i will take a lot of the things bernie said and using them. he said some things about her that are actually surprising. essentially she has no right to even be running and that she has bad judgment. when he said bad judgment, i said sound bite. >> msnbc political analyst, former democratic chairman and former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. governor, thanks very much for being with us. donald trump is not wrong. he has a whole list or playbook from bernie sanders' attacks, has he not? >> no question. if bernie sanders endorses hillary clinton in the fall, and i'm sure he will, the next thing the trump campaign will do is put on some of those statements and that will obviously hurt senator sanders' credibility in the endorsement. he's opening himself up, the trump campaign will open themselves up to a response for bernie sanders says. sure i said it. hillary clinton will achieve that. donald trump won't. hillary clinton, supreme court choices will achieve that. donald trump won't. he can go through a whole litany of things he and hillary clinton agreed on, donald trump disagrees on. you have to be careful when you do that you're setting the ball on the tee and if bernie sanders wants to, he can hit it way out of the park. >> governor, are there any back channel talks going on between the clinton and sanders camps? we saw what was said and indicating for the first time not that he has a path to the nomination but he wants to accumulate enough delegates with the clout to get his platform? i talked to him yesterday and he clearly is going to stay in this through california and new jersey. he's not backing out of the primaries. do you expect he would soften his tone in his attacks of her? >> i think so. bernie sanders cares about the issues that motivated him to run as a long shot and do as well as he's done. if he cares about those issues he knows only hillary clinton will make progress. donald trump or ted cruz won't. he's now going to keep that in mind and, by the way, we in the clinton camp do not in any way begrudge him going all the way to california. secretary clinton did that in 2008. bernie sand eers has young peop working for him. they have the right to cast their ballots for him and to bring people to the polls for him in california. he has the perfect right to be enter entered into the nomination at the convention and have his delegates vote for him there. so no one begrudges that at all. i think you'll see communication start fairly slowly i think you'll see it start among the two camps. >> what would you expect him to do to try to persuade his young followers to support hillary clinton down the road? he has said it's up to her to reach out to them on their issues. does he have any obligation, do you think, to the party? >> well, i don't think he has an obligation to the party per se but has an obligation to the cause he espoused. what my message would be is, look, we got in this because we believed america needs to be changed. maybe it's not going to be changed 100% the way we want it but hillary clinton is a much better vehicle to bring about substantial change along the lines we want -- a much better vehicle than donald trump. so get onboard, don't pout. let's do things for the causes we believe in. that's a powerful message because when people got behind bernie sanders, i'm not sure very many of them thought he was going to be the eventual nominee. they wanted to make a statement. they wanted to focus america's attention on those issues. and they have and they should be congratulated for doing that. >> thank you so much, governor rendell. and as we await donald trump's arrival for his foreign policy speech, let me bring in msnbc military analyst colonel jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient. colonel jacobs, he says that he has military men and presumably some women advising him. he's named a couple of people. but what would you expect the military to be listening for in this speech today? >> any specifics that he's got. a lot of the things as you discussed earlier in the program are not achievable. the other thing to remember, of course, is that as the chief executive, even the commander in chief, he can't do anything by himself, he needs the support of congress for a wide variety of policies so he can't do things unilaterally. i think the military people are going to be very much interested to the extent that he is specific about the distribution of our forces, the focus of our attention, military attention, the use of the military policy. is he going to say anything about the pacific where there is increasing encroachment by the chinese. is there going to be any discussion whatsoever of any road map, a strategy in the middle east. he's done a great deal about castigating the fact that we don't have a strategy. is he going to articulate one himself. we don't have a strategy but is he going to articulate one himself? he talked before about increasing the size and strength of the military. well, that's going to require -- that's going to require the congress to weigh in and it all revolves around money and the tendency in the last couple of years actually is to go the other way, make the military smaller. is he going to be specific about what kinds of sizes he wants to see in the various land forces, air forces and sea forces, all of which -- all of these things have an impact on actually how we're going to project our power onto the world stage. another interesting thing that would be interesting to listen to the military people are listening to is the following. where in the planaply, where is the instrument of policy fit? up until now even in this administration the use of the military instrument of power has been the default instrument. it's only recently that we've begun to use the other instruments of policy and it'll be interesting to see if donald trump addresses that issue. in the past, in the recent past, the use of the military instrument of power as the default instrument has not done very well, has not done very well for us because we don't have the -- have not had the political will to use the military instrument to its full extent. all of these things, i think, the military community is going to be looking at very closely. >> colonel jack jacobs. and, jeff goldberg, when we talk about the military, donald trump is not the only candidate who talks about a stronger military, but none of them address the fact the sequester and the budget decisions made by this president and this congress have really straitjacketed the military. >> well, the military is, yeah, they have tremendous budget problems and, of course, one of the things we're listening for -- there are 15 or 20 things we're listening for today. one of them would be how he manages that budget. does he want to expand naval power? does he want to keep -- is he going to fight against the sequester and the damage the sequester has done? the questions are voluminous. he's not providing a lot of details to this but a lot of us who cover foreign policy for a living and i think i speak for you on this, would love to know how he wants to organize the military and as jack jacobs says how he wants to project american force, what are his red lines like freedom of navigation in the south china sea, what are his red lines governing nato and russian encroachment into nato territory? there are 100 issues that need to be addressed if people are going to take him seriously as a potential commander in chief. >> what he said today on "morning joe" was when asked what would you compare the america that you envision to, which decade, which century, and he said it's never happened. i want it to be the greatest that it's ever been. >> a somewhat predictable answer from him. the thing that is hard here is that i am almost certain and i will not stun jeff to tell him this we will not get that level of detail from donald trump. if donald trump says anything about the south china see and his views on it, i will try to stay in my chair. you are going to see, i think, again, the broadest outlines of what he believes. and i think in truth it may wind up, particularly if he wrote it, to be a mashup of sort of the greatest hits from the campaign trail of donald trump. i don't think he'll say this but he might. we're going to make the military so strong you won't believe it. no one will challenge us. now that doesn't get into sequestration. how? that's always the problem for donald trump. >> what are the tradeoffs? >> we're going to make mexico pay for the wall. how? because they seem uninterested. we're going to put a temporary ban on muslims. how? how low jgistically would you e try to go about that? the thing about it is the how -- not talking about the how does not seem to have hurt him politically speaking when voters vote, which gives him very little incentive in his own mind to have to elucidate any of the how. >> i'm not being naive when i think the average trump voter actually cares about sequestration or policy in the south china sea. at a certain point we have to take seriously the idea he could be commander in chief and when he, by the way, just to add on to this point, when he says there has never been an america as great as the one he's going to make it, my question is, does he know what roosevelt and truman and kennedy and nixon did and rejects what they did and how they organized the world, or does he just not know american history? >> it's the difference between campaigning and governing, which everyone grapples. to jeffrey's point, at some level he is clearly the front-runner for this nomination. you have to at some point say, i'm going -- you don't have to put all the meat on the bone. no one does as a candidate but you have to put some meat on the bone to say this is how -- particularly on foreign policy this is how i see the world, here is where it's different from the people who came before me. here is where it's simple. >> basic governing principles of this thing. >> and while all of this is taking place, and we've just been given a two-minute warning he is going to be entering the room, from indiana with the cruz campaign, a lot of talk carly fiorina will be unveiled at 4:00 this afternoon. what do we know? >> well, we can tell you, andrea, that our eagle eye spotted carly fiorina walking into a build iing here in indianapolis, so we know that she is here in town. there is speculation now that she is going to be joining ted cruz at that 4:00 p.m. event, that's 4:00 p.m. rally, the major announcement that he has been foreshadowing. the campaign is being very tightlipped about this. remember she has been a constant presence, a surrogate for cruz since early march when she endorsed him in a surprise move at a miami rally and she's also done a lot of work on the delegate hunting front. she's been out in the field for him in places where she can work the rooms and try to peel away delegates for him in case this does go to a contested convention. now ted cruz's only hope at locking down the republican nomination in july in cleveland. look at the timing here, andrea. this is significant. ted cruz is coming off big, big losses in those primary states last night. donald trump not just winning but winning dominantly. if, in fact, and it's still an if, if, in fact, cruz does come out with fiorina and talking about wanting to pick her as a running mate, this would be a move to try to change the subject and try to change the media narrative as he has just six days left before make-or-break indiana, this state a real battleground for him, a state where he has to prove he can beat donald trump. i think taking a look at video captured by vonn hilliard exclusively seeing this, fiorina in the city, in indiana. we can also report that both she and ted cruz will be heading to california this weekend to the convention in order to try to continue some of that delegate hunting work, andrea, so lots to monitor here from indiana today. >> thanks to you, halle, and to vonn hilliard and, of course, the last time this happened, the last time there was a contested convention was in 1976 in kansas city, and ronald reagan challenging the incumbent president, gerald ford, did name a running mate. pennsylvania senator as one of the gambits to get some of those undeclared delegates. it didn't work for reagan. we'll see how it works for cruz. a lot earlier in the primary process. katie tur in the room there at the mayflower hotel. we're expecting any moment donald trump to come out and any other points you want to make about what to expect from this speech? >> reporter: hey there, andrea. his campaign team has just walked out, so we're expecting donald trump any moment now. a couple points. crystal is absolutely right. the eidea donald trump will hav a detailed foreign policy speech is probably not just accurate. one of his advisers just told us there will be no details in the speech. the details are not what his supporters have so far wanted from him on the campaign trail. they're folks who want change and want somebody to come in to washington and do things differently. they just don't trust politicians. when asked if he's not an expert in a certain area or what they think he will do, they give him an amount of trust that no other politician has seen to be able to grasp before him. they believe that he'll be able to find the right advisers, find the right people to put around him. much in the same way they saw him doing that on "the apprentice." oftentimes we hear them reference that show when they're talking about how donald trump will run things. they reference his business a lot. there's a level of trust that his supporters have in him that is just unprecedented even though he's not giving any details. the details are not what they're after, frankly, andrea. they're after somebody who is going to come in and just be completely different. the details surrounding how he will do things don't matter at the moment. >> it certainly has worked for him so far. richard engel, as we await the arrival of donald trump, i think the foreign policy analysis may not be relevant to the way voters are respond iing to this man. >> reporter: i was just listening to what ka it ty was saying and it's very disturbing. if they think that a wrecking ball can come in with the power of the united states military, the united states government, its diplomatic power, moral power, and not make a difference, that one man cannot change the course of history, then they frankly don't know the course of history. if you look at what has happened over the last 100 years, one person hyper empowered with a fanatical support base has always been something that we need to be cautious about. so her eideas the people don't want difference they just want radical change, we've heard that before and, frankly, it hasn't gone well. >> and, abby phillip, the hillary clinton campaign is lying in wait. they'll have a conference call this afternoon talking to us about how she would counteract donald trump on foreign policy. obviously she believes this is a strength, the former secretary of state. at the same time she is vulnerable on libya, on syria, on a lot of other policies and certainly her iraq war vote is one both donald trump and bernie sanders have been hammering her on. >> i think this is a double-edged sword for the clinton campaign. they are kind of excited about this idea of setting her up as the policy wonk in opposition to donald trump being something else. but the problem is that voters right now are responding to someone who is giving them very little if not no details. and hillary clinton is the exact opposite of that and they have to find a way to not only give the details but also to present a broad picture of who she wants to be as commander in chief that fits with what voters want in this moment. the iraq war vote is a problem for her on the right because of donald trump raising that in the primary and it's a problem for her on the left. i think that, you know, they're going to have to grapple with that. the trump campaign is, i think, gambling that at this moment there's no benefit to them. it's a change in the strategy. the strategy has worked up until this point. and going into a general election potentially against clinton i think they want to have some degree of flexibility and that's the danger zone for democrats which is that they actually don't really know what donald trump is going to say. and when you don't know, no campaign operative wants to be in that kind of situation. >> and while we've been talking and waiting for donald trump, bernie sanders has been speaking in indiana and he has been saying we're in this to win but we can count delegates. we know we're behind and saying at least he wants to come to philadelphia with enough delegates to have leverage. so it's the first time he has acknowledged in a campaign rally speech, yes, he can lose. >> right. and, look, i was actually listening to -- because i'm a mixed media maven, andrea, a podcast of dan pfeiffer, two former obama officials, and dan made a really great point which is this idea that you can just, if you're a supporter -- if you're a bernie sanders supporter, the math doesn't add up. okay, let's take our stuff -- that's not how it works. they invest so much time and energy. the candidate, the candidate's family, the supporters, this is a process of coming to grips with the math and then figuring out what's next. he's essentially been running -- i think he went from i'm probably not going to win to, holy cow, i may win to now a stage where it's clear that mathematically it's almost impossible for him to win. but to assume that he immediately must jump or should jump or can jump to that next stage which is, okay, what do i want, how do i handle myself? that's the work of the next week or two as he tries to sort out for himself and then push that message both to his staff and supporters what does a winddown but not concession look like? >> a week or two if not longer. this could be a long project for bernie sanders. he has an organization and a foundation of support eers and they're not going to want to totally squander that. and i'm not sure the democrats want them to totally squander that. these are people who could be in the democratic tent for a long time if this is handled right. i think that's why you see the clinton campaign really treading very lightly here. they want to kind of get this right because they know that if they move too fast, if they start to shake the boat, you know, they want to be in a position where they bring these people in in a couple of months. they're waiting and allowing bernie and his campaign to have the time. >> ed rendell on your air, andrea, a perfect example. he knows how to throw a punch politically speaking if he wants and needs to. what did he say? the sanders people should be congratulated. >> and that's what she essentially said last night and we see people walk iing in, the vips and the close advisers to donald trump walking into the front row there at the mayflower. i think we're going to see him at any moment on that stage. this was originally skcheduled o be at the national press club. they moved to the larger venue and certainly it's a venue that has a better look about it, just the staging of it, than a room in the press club would have been. but clearly this is a high interest and a high moment for this campaign. this is his first big appearance since his election night victory last night. his first big appearance since his five state sweep yesterday. and his first form al speech other than the apex speech which went well to a certain degree except when he was ad-libbing and the leaders had to come out the next day and apologize to their audience for it, the fact he criticized hillary clinton before a nonpartisan group. >> right. the one thing i'm looking for today is to think about this speech through the prism of the reality that this is a man who wants to control america's nuclear arsenal and the way we should listen to the speech is to think about that. this is a guy who is now one step removed provisionally, let's say, from controlling the world's largest nuclear arsenal. i'm listening to see if he recognizes the weight of that. >> and one of the things that has been noteworthy, katie tour, you know this better than anyone, is that he has had a deficit of senate supporters and he has translated that into a positive because he is running against the establishment but only jeff sessions, the only senator that had initially supported him has been part of this foreign policy advisory team. >> reporter: yeah, that we know of so far. as senators jeff sessions has just walked into the room right now introduction is being said for mr. trump. we believe he will come in in just a few moments. you're exactly right. he has been running on this idea he is an outsider, that he is going to be the one who will be able to go into washington and change things because he is an outsider, that washington doesn't like him. they're not embracing him because he's not beholden to the same special interests that they are behold en to. he's not playing into their game. it's a message that is very easy for his supporters to understand and it is one that resonates with them. i think very simply -- very simply the reality is his supporters are so sick and tired of washington. they're so sick and tired of washington, they just want something different even if that different thing is not someone who is traditionally prepared for the office. they believe that he will be able to find the folks that he needs to make sure he's prepared. the concern that's out there, even amongst some of his supporters is that he only listens to himself ultimately and sometimes that can get him in trouble. who are the people that he actually holds their opinion high and dear? those folks are certainly his inner circle, his family, but even they only have a certain amount of influence with donald trump. the idea let trump be trump where trump is the head of the campaign is very accurate. there's nobody else running this campaign. there's no one else calling the shots. and donald trump will be himself so long as he thinks it is working and it has worked for him so far. his foreign policy speech is a step in the evolving direction but it's not going to be the same detail that you would see with any other tradition al candidate looking to find some depth and to find some clout on the world stage. >> and he's being introduced by the former ambassador. jeff goldberg, an interesting choice to be his introducer. >> i'm sure it's not his most comfortable moment but he is representing an organization and they are hosting him. it makes sense. i'm curious to know what -- he's in that group of people who could plausibly go work for donald trump but not too plausibly at this moment and he's precisely the sort of person who wants to hear detail we're probably not going to get. >> and jack jacobs, donald trump said you're one of the people he listens to. if you were advising him now about u.s. military strategy, he's not going to be that specific but what in the broad vision do you want to hear? >> i would advise him not to take back what he said but to modify his hyperbolic statements earlier and maybe even concede that, look, this is a primary contest and in a primary contest we have a tendency to be hyperbolic. and when i will have secured the nomination, you're going to see reasonable foreign policy that is reasonably achieved with a reasonable force that the people in the congress can support. i'd advise him that this is probably a pretty good time to start acting more diplomatic than being on the campaign trail in order to get the votes necessary for the nomination. it might actually help him at the convention, too. >> the clinton campaign has just put out secretary madeleine albright, former secretary of state madeleine albright, and tim kaine, former head of the democratic committee, but senator tim kaine and one of the people believed to be under consideration as a possible running mate of hillary clinton gets the nomination will be critiquing trump's speech afterwards on a conference call with those of us who cover the clinton campaign as well. richard engel, i know you have strong views about what you think donald trump has to do. assuming that it's not going to be a specific speech but he needs to flesh out his vision, does he not, as to how america can project its strength. >> reporter: if he's going to flesh out his vision, will that take away all that he's said thus far? i'm not looking at this speech, as jeff was saying earlier, as someone who potentially has his finger on the nuclear button. i'm maybe watching this the way others in washington are watching this. washington is a predatory town, and i think a lot of people who have old agendas in washington are seeing if this new bombastic individual gets elected, what old agendas can they roll out? that has happened in the past. it happened with president bush, an emotional president who liked to fly by the seat of the pants after 9/11. a lot of old policy agendas were slipped in. and i would wonder who else in washington is now around him watching to see if this guy does get elected what old agendas can we pull over the american people. >> at the same time, richard, we've heard from secretary kerry and president obama and others -- well, hillary clinton has more of a political approach to this, but certainly from the president and the secretary of state that what they're hearing when they go to these summits from foreign leaders is what is going on in america. there's a lot of concern. >> reporter: i've heard that time and time again. people say what is going on? what is this person going to do? what kind of statements particularly about the muslim world. people thought what he said about banning muslims was profoundly not just politically incorrect because that is not that important in the rest of the world but it was profoundly un-american, they thought. it was not the kind of america they believe that the kcountry represented. and foreign ambassadors have come up to me in meetings and said what do you think will happen if trump gets elected? what will he do to the world like he's going to get behind the wheel of a car and crash it into their nations, there is a considerable palpable concern to the point that when i meet officials, they come up to me and ask should they be worried. >> and -- we're going to the podium. >> thank you to the center for national interests for honoring me with this invitation. it truly is a a great honor. i'd like to talk today about how to develop a new foreign policy direction for our country that has ideology with strategy and chaos with peace. it's time to shake the rust off america's foreign policy. it's time to invite new voices and new visions into the fold, something we have to do. the direction i will outline today will also return us to a timeless principle. my foreign policy will always put the interests of the american people and american security above all else. it has to be first. has to be. that will be the foundation of every single decision that i will make. america -- [ applause ] america first will be the major and overriding theme of my administration. but to chart our path forward, we must first briefly take a look back. we have a lot to be proud of. in the 1940s we saved the world. the greatest generation beat back the nazis and japanese imperiali imperialists. then we saved the world again. this time from totalitarianism and communism, the cold war lasted for decades but, guess what, we won and we won big. democrats and republicans working together got mr. gorbachev to heed the words of president reagan, our great president, when he said, tear down this wall. [ applause ] history will not forget what he did. a very special, special man and president. unfortunately, after the cold war our foreign policy veered badly off course. we failed to develop a new vision for a new time. in fact, as time went on, our foreign policy began to make less and less sense. logic was replaced with foolishness and arrogance which led to one foreign policy disaster after another. they just kept coming and coming. we went from mistakes in iraq to egypt to libya to president obama's line in the sand in syria. each of these actions have helped to throw the region into chaos and gave isis the space it needs to grow and prosper. very bad. it all began with a dangerous idea that we could make western democracies and countries that had no experience or interests in becoming a western democracy. we tore up what institutions they had and then were surprised at what we unleashe
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