gordon gecko is not a good guy. i love what i do, the expression that they used in the movie, agreed is good, great for purposes of a movie, but greed is certainly not good. >> well, we're going to get a chance in a couple of seconds, i talked to david k. johnson, i have been interviewing this fellow, trump for so many years. and it's amazing back to know him before he did the stuff that offended so many people. the charge that president obama was born in some other country and somehow snuck into the presidency. it was a different kettle of fish back there. anyway, i'm joined by the columnist, the author "the making of donald trump" tell us about the evolution, when he was sort of a show-boating business guy, nothing illegal about that i suppose. this guy who found a way to make himself the tribune of the right. >> well, donald has always been about money, despite that 1980 interview i guess it was with tom brokaw. money is very important to him. the first big deal in manhattan, the grand hyatt, he put no money into

kennedy: gordon gecko famously said "greed is good." that's the same year the stock market crashed. but will the trump era usher in large living. we used to be more into modest thinking. now people are thinking you have to live big league. is this a sustainable financial philosophy or are we setting ourselves up for a crash? jonathon hoenig, welcome back. did you send me a copy of "atlas shrugged in arabic"? >> hebrew, actually. >> thank you. i would disagree with robber schiller. i don't know what he means by living large. does that mean being bankrupt three times like trump's companies? it's the materialism and obsession about stuff. building stuff here, owning stuff here, things with your name on it. i know a lot of wealthy people with a lot of stuff and they are very unhappy. stuff will not make you happy, you need self-esteem for that. kennedy: some stuff does make you happy. >> you have to have the right underlying philosophy behind it. for americans 's always been about owning your own life and pursuing your happiness and having a pride in that. i don't think what i see from