and another person who deserves some miserable credit for this is gordon liddy. if he had pleaded guilty, we wouldn't have had watergate. he was a one man self-destructive mechanism. announcing he used mccord, publicized the fact in walking down hallways that he did something wrong. he made blunder after blunder. and the ultimate one was going to tria,l which allowed all this come out when the judge pushed everybody. so there are extraordinary twists and turns that have not been explored in this dimension. >> i think it's worth remembering that the first watergate trial was tried in the theory that the only people involved were the seven defendants. and the senate didn't believe that. >> the judge didn't believe it either. >> and that's why the watergate committee was established. >> well, the judge was squeezing the burglars and then the nebs layer and next layer and kept saying you have to tell me about the higher ups. you talk about sam dash organizing, telling the hearings in a way that told a story. but was the purpose the same, was the purpose to squeeze yo

gordon liddy. >> people with good reputations get into that fix? >> and rufus mentioned mccord, one thing that really got the ball rolling in watergate is mccord wrote a letter to sirica that said there had been perjury in the trial and trees in the forest are going to fall. and that got everybody interested -- >> that's because the judge squeezed him. actually, up until this panel, i always thought -- i was shocked by it, but i thought he was a hero. his reputation is not what you're saying. >> well -- >> we already made news, everybody. >> well, no. he accomplished something and another person who deserves some miserable credit for this is g. gordon liddy. if he had pleaded guilty we wouldn't have had watergate. he was a one man self zrukt active mechanism. he went around and announcing that he used mccord. he publicly sized the fact that walking down hallways that he did something wrong. he made blunder after blunder, and the ultimate one was going to trial, which allowed all this to come out wh

conspiracy story being peddled that the stupidity of that, it reminds you of -- it makes you think that gordon liddia bunch of geniuses. >> ron, let me ask you this. sarah huckabee sanders said general kelly -- she was asked how president trump would handle this. let me play you a bit of this. >> talked to the president without the approval of general kelly? >> i don't know that i would say approval is the correct word but i certainly don't think it's like we're getting permission slips signed, but i do think that there is something to having a structured process in order just to make things run more smoothly at the white house. >> ron, we're seven months into this presidency and a couple hundred years into a white house. why are they struggling with structure in the white house? >> well, i think two reasons. one, technology has changed the role of the gatekeeper because of cell phones and e-mail, there are ways for staff to connect with the president that don't go through the traditional process. no chief of staff can really police. because of twitter, there's an outbound way for the president to c

they found a maniac and put him in charge of subverting the democratic campaign -- that's gordon liddyhere they found a maniac and they put him in the white house. >> i thought it was a skit. >> i just want to tell you -- >> a skit of a bunch of sycophants. >> well, it was stunning. i did some research on the 25th amendment, and the cabinet majority can vote for that, but the president has to agree. if the president doesn't agree, then -- and the cabinet comes back and votes for it again, then two-thirds of both chambers of the congress have to endorse it. so it ain't gonna happen. >> you heard it here first. [ laughter ] >> anybody want to talk about -- you know, a lot of laws came out of watergate. there was campaign finance and there was the prosecutor's law, and there were others, and they're all been diluted since then. >> they've all been what? >> diluted. either they're not there anymore or they're diluted. so i wonder what the legacy -- i know you've said that we can now question presidents and stuff. is there any other lasting legacy, positive or negative? certainly it changed