"i want to tell you, gorsuch," he said -- not "just as gorsuch ." gorsuch. "i want to tell you, gorsuch, i want to tell you, kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price. you won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions." wow. just wow. i think matthew 12:36 is correct, "for by thy words you shall be justified, and by thy words you shall be condemned." now, the sad truth is that some -- not all -- some of my democratic colleagues have been on a crusade to undermine the united states supreme court's legitimacy and the credibility of the federal judiciary committee for years. today's hearing is just the next chapter in their federal power grab, and they have invited cameras. it is worth remembering the very real persecution that some democrats have levied on very good people. it started with the savage destruction of professor and judge robert bork, which even "the washington post," for god sakes, "the washington post" said was a case of sentencing first, verdict afterwards. in other words, they gave him a fair

there've been reports about justice clarence thomas and now reports about justice gorsuch on i believe a property transaction and even chief justice roberts wife. what are these revealing to you and what is concerning for you? >> therere very little rules tht governed the justices when it comes to outside sources of income for giftt giving. certainly with disclosure. justicesin are permitted to conduct certain activities on p the outside and they are allowed to teach a law school class. they are about to publish books and have for a few deals where they get paid. but there isn't a limit on how much disclosures on the outside so a lot of times in people try to influence the judges they are barred from paying a consulting fee for making a monetary payment to them. when instead happens is those same people trying to influence the justices will instead curry favor with them by sponsoring lavish trips or bringing them up to expensive dinners at nice restaurants are paying for them to travel with their family on a personal vacation. and oftentimes that doesn't get disclosed that the late jus

if you look at what happened with neil gorsuch, gorsuch sold a plot of land, sold a plot of land to someonewas a lawyer that runs a law firm that practiced in front of the supreme court. if the court had an ethics code, there is a way to do that transaction that is above board. he would want an outside regulator oromeone to look at the transaction, make sure it was fair market value, make sure the buyer did not know who the ller was -- there are ways you can set up an ethics code. but because they don't have an ethics code, you don't know whether they are doing things in an aboveboard way, you don't know -- they have no way to defend themselves when they get caught doing something like this. and suddenly, the robertson gorsuch incident i think are much less serious than what happened with clarence thomas, but every scandal starts to look agree just like what you had with justice thomas. amy: explain also chief justice himself and how he is personally profiting because of his wif >> jane roberts works as a legal recruiter, apparently a very high level legal recruiter who helps firms that wan

it's easy for neil gorsuch to talk about the lockdowns. his life is a lockdown.how is that any different? the most shocking thing about all this was this intrusion that he talked about was supported by the hipsters. the cool people. the people in hollywood. he was the other older people that were like "i have had it." people like van morrison and eric clapton. it was unusual reversal. it was like, younger people made the mask part of their identity. if you refused to participate in their covid kabuki, it was an attack on them and they are most believed freedom was like a pile. if you were free, then they weren't and so they needed you to take part in their misery and then of add to that the class distinction where you have people with wealth and status dictating the rules while they are violating them. it's exactly why they pushed the race card because if they push the race card, you don't know the aoc and gavin newsom are actually class oppressors. they are the ones that push this on you but not for them. no one notices that. they are too busy yelling at each ot

now they're coming from neil gorsuch.itico with the juicy opposition research saying law firm head bought gorsuch owned property the supreme court justice did no report the identity of the purchaser whose firm had numerous cases before the court. but when one writer for the wall street journal actually looked into these details what he found way a a total nothing burger. first gorsuch didn't own the property directly he had a share of a company which sold the property. and the guy who bought it had never spoken to or even met gorsuch. joining me now chris landow former to gorsuch, also form ambassador to mexico in the trump administration. chris, what's going on, you and i when we were clerking we didn't hear this type of stuff, this scuttlebutt. this wasn't even in the atmosphere at all. but this seems to be picking up. why? >> i think you nailed it, laura. the supreme court is one institution that the left does not control in our country today, and i think they don't see that institution coming within their control anyt

never mind gorsuch saying it was a civil liberties infringement, it was. when will we see individual accountability that is continuing to hurt our country for decades to come through the debt built up totally unnecessarily. >> harris: i hear all that. the reason i say what about gorsuch now, who appointed by donald trump, i ask that question because if it were not for his voice reminding apparently the court and reminding the country that we have been down this road for three plus years we know what broke us, we know what broke us and we're willing to go along again with the charade of title 42 didn't help us. yes it did. it didn't come from the president that biden and other democrats really like. it came from donald trump. >> honestly, we should be controlling the border and having a properly run immigration system in its own right. not relying on some pandemic thing to control the border. a property government that understands one of its prime responsibilities is to protect our border not relying on some pandemic-era title that was a temporary public he

so back then gorsuch was a loud voice, alito, thomas, justice barrett joined in on some of that. so they've been warning about this tough for years. you know, some people are, like, oh, where was neil gorsuch the last two or three years, we love this opinion. he was there. they were pushing back on this and warning and talking about how the government has so much power, and overnight people allowed it without question. rachel: yeah. and hen there were the people like, you mentioned the woman who had -- she was arrested for opening hrsa loan, and then nancy pelosi goes and gets her haircut in a scent salon session, same with mayor lori lightfoot. we saw these protected politicians who were allowed to to break the rules because somehow they were more important than us or their hair was more important than my hair. it was just kind of crazy, and i think it's good to the see it because we don't want to repeat it, shannon. we have to go back and really examine it again. >> yeah. and i did start to find out what the real color of my hair is -- [laughter] i think we all did. rachel: we

"i want to tell you, gorsuch," he said -- not "justice gorsuch." gorsuch. "i want to tell you, gorsuch, i want to tell you, kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price. you won't know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions." wow. just wow. i think matthew 12:36 is correct, "for by thy words you shall be justified, and by thy words you shall be condemned." now, the sad truth is that some -- not all -- some of my democratic colleagues have been on a crusade to undermine the united states supreme court's legitimacy and the credibility of the federal judiciary committee for years. today's hearing is just the next chapter in their federal power grab, and they have invited cameras. it is worth remembering the very real persecution that some democrats have levied on very good people. it started with the savage destruction of professor and judge robert bork, which even "the washington post," for god's sakes, "the washington post" said was a case of sentencing first, verdict afterwards. in other words, they gave him a fa

still ahead supreme court justice neil gorsuch issuing a scathing report about manhattans, some of thegious policies and how they affected us. and a policy excluding white students from a prestigious program, we'll tell you about that next. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. and, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnan

supreme court justice neil gorsuch did not mince words on his views of the covid lockdown.ourt dismisses red state push to preserve tight will 42, gorsuch called out elected officials for failing to address the border crises and pushing the responsibility to the court, the border crisis is not a covid crisis, will congress follow suit, the party panel is back. robby, i want to read you a quote from wrote concentration of power and hands of so few may be apprefficient and sometime polar. >> in should ways the supreme court was our last line of defense against total covid tyranny, sc scotus struck down biden's federal vaccine mandate for millions of workers done with a wave of his magic wand that he does not possess, joe biden declaring that millions of people would have to get vaccinated, under osha guidelines no congress deliberated and wrote down and approved and spr voted on. this was joe biden declaring that he had his power time and again throughout the pandemic we saw government officials, sometimes unelected officials, health officials, at state and local level assert

the court recently highlighted the book deals of justices sonia sotomayor and neil gorsuch. court notes that both justices sotomayor and gorsuch failed to recuse themselves on copyright infringement cases involving penguin random house fix. the court reported that justice sotomayor has earned more than $3 million from books published through penguin, and the group said justice gorsuch, who's a republic, if you can keep it memoir was published by penguins forum books in 2019. earned over $500,000. in other book news, the 2023 pulitzer prizes were announced. here's some of the winners. freedom's dominion a saga of white resistance to federal power. jefferson cowie. he won the prize for history. g-man j. edgar hoover. and the making of the american century by beverly gage won the biography category and stayed true, a memoir by hua hsu won the prize for memoir or autobiography. and his name is george floyd by robert samuels and toluse olorunnipa won the general nonfiction category. both beverly gage and tolu olo juniper were recent guests on booktv. you can find them in our vide

the court recently highlighted the book dealsf justices sonia sotomayor and neil gorsuch. fix the court notes that both justices sotomayor and gorsuch failed to recuse themselves on copyright infringement cases involving penguin random house fix. the court reported that justice sotomayor has earned more than $3 million from books published through penguin, and the group said justice gorsuch, who's a republic, if you can keep it memoir was published by penguins forum books in 2019. earned over $500,000. in other book news, the 2023 pulitzer prizes were announced. here's some of the winners. freedom's dominion a saga of white resistance to federal power. jefferson cowie. he won the prize for history. g-man j. edgar hoover. and the making of the american century by beverly gage won the biography category and stayed true, a memoir by hua hsu won the prize for memoir or autoography. and his name is george floyd by robert samuels and tolus olorunnipa won the general nonftion category. both beverly gage and tolu olo juniper we rect guests on booktv. you can find them in our video

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justice neil gorsuch has had some disclosure issues of his own. last, week politico reported that gorsuch was less than forthcoming about his involvement in a real estate deal in which the head of one of the nation's largest law firms, which does robust business before the court, purchased a property that neil gorsuch co owned in colorado. according to politico, the deal came together just days after neil gorsuch was confirmed to the court back in 2017. what great timing. and then there's justice samuel alito, who is still mad about the leak of the dobbs decision that he wrote, which stripped away the federal right to an abortion from millions of americans. in a recent interview with the wall street journal editorial board, alito claim that the leaker put his life in danger, and says he knows the identity of the league or but is not prepared to name them. how convenient. and also, how interesting, because a former antiabortion activist has since come forward to say that alito himself like the result of a different decision from the court on reprod

this comes as supreme court justice gorsuch offers scathing review saying, executive officials across issued emergency decree on breathtaking scale. since march 20twenty, may be greatest intrusion on civil liberties in this country. center of constitutional studies aticato institute joins me now. why is the dc bar examiners through circuit court of appeals, continuing to ignore science and do the thing neil gorsuch is railing against? >> i haven't been at cato institute for a year and a half. it is cruel. i took the bar exam 20 years ago, given studies show masking doesn't do anything in a prolonged area like that, to intensify the most stressful experience most people have in early professional lives, it is cruel and no reason to it, it is virtue signalling. i'm hearing since that reporter broke the story, the washington free beacon, outstanding work and the dc bar is walking this back. we still have a couple months before this happens and maybe because of the public shaming, the role journalists should play when policies happen, maybe that is being walked back and i'm glad you broug

law firm had boughtd bout gorsuch own property. the supreme court justice did not report the identity of the purchaser, whose firm hasr had numerous cases before the court. bu firm hadt when one writer forte the wall street journal actually looked into these details, way t he found was a total nothing burger. >> firsta tota, gorsuch didn't n the property directly. he had a sharersuch di share ofh a company which sold the property and the guyd who bought it has never spoken to or even met gorsuch. joining me now, chris landauer, former law clerk to justices scalia and thomas and a top appellate litigator. he was also a former us ambassador to mexico in the trump administration. formchris , what's going on hero you and i , when we werewere clerking, we didn't hear this type of stuff. the scuttlebutt this wasn'tis even scuttt even in the atmosph. but this seems to be picking up. why? he l i think you nailed it, laura . the supreme court is onerol in institution the left does not te control in our country today. >> and i think they don

change the balance of the court, if they would have produced enough votes to get to 60 for gorsuch, who knows if the rule would have -- the atmosphere would've still been there? >> you think it would've helped for kavanaugh? >> i don't know. i think it would have been harder later in that congress than it was at that moment. and i even said to a couple of democrats at the time, "the smartest thing you could do right now is let your members who will actually be helped by this, not hurt by this. vote for this guy that's perfectly acceptable." >> let me go back to the last question that i asked senator whitehouse, and i'm going to ask it to you. >> okay. >> in a different way. look, we know the supreme court's approval ratings essentially have fallen and fallen badly. how -- what would be your recommendation to help the perception of the court? >> well, i certainly think that the court is still such a critically important part to our structure. the court does bring finality to things that sometimes i don't agree with, sometimes others don't agree with. but what we don't want to do is b

amna: both thomas and gorsuch are conservative.ability are largely coming from democrats and the conversation seems to be folding in a partisan arena. >> unfortunately. i've been talking about this for decades. it should not be partisan. part of the problem is because the court lacks transparency and does not make clear what it does to follow laws, the only way we hear about stories is through occasional investigative reporting. if the court itself was more transparent it would prevent these partisan issues from arising. amna: what would transparency look like? what should happen? >> i wish the court on its own would adopt a court of conduct. it's the only court in the federal judiciary that does not have one binding. i wish they would do it. if not, congress could compel them to do so through legislation and they would hopefully quickly respond. i hope that happens in the future. right now it is unlikely but the conversation is progressing and i think that recent revelations of unethical conduct have led more people to think refor

political reported justice neil gorsuch sold a colorado property to the ceo of a law firm with regularhe court and do not disclose the ceo was buyer. >> congress not only has the ability to legislate in this area, but the responsibility. >> democrats argued lawmakers must act. >> the supreme crt should fix this themselves. for years, they have refused. because the court will not act, congress must. >> republicans dismissed the hearing as a liberal effort to undermine the conservative leading court. >> the danger is not that robed justices are operating without ethics, it is that democrats are not winning every fight and they find that reality intolerable. >> not in the hearing room, chief justice john roberts, who was invited by judiciary chair dick durbin to testify. roberts declined, calling the congressional testimony exceedingly rare and cited the importance of preserving judicial independence. his letter included a statement on the courts ethics signed by all of the justices. all of this as trust in the court is at record lows. in a recent poll, more than six in 10 americans said

there's also neil gorsuch, nine days after joining the bench, gorsuch sold a property he owned to the head of a major law firm that would go on to be involved in 22 cases before the high court. and then you have chief justice john roberts, insiders reporting that roberts' wife made over $10 million working as a recruiter for law firms who regularly appear before the court. none of this was previously disclosed. what the senate is proposing in response to these efforts isn't some wild far-reaching concept. it's pretty standard practice. angus king and lisa murkowski introduced legislation last week that would force the court to create a binding code of conduct and appoint an ethics officer to oversee it. while a separate bill proposed by democratic senator sheldon whitehouse would require the justices to adopt and follow an ethics code, impose standards for disclosing travel and gifts in line with rules for members of congress, and create an investigative board to review complaints against justices. essentially, just holding these nine justices to the same standard as every single lowe

cnn is learning that justices sonia sotomayor and neil gorsuch both received royalties from their bookn randomhouse but not recuse themselves from cases that came before the court involving the publishing company, and this comes as propublica reports yet another undisclosed gift that justice clarence thomas received from texas billionaire harlan crow. this time, thousands of dollars in boarding school tuition for thomas's grandnephew. the gop mega donor giving propublica a statement about these tuition payments that says, in part, "harlan crow had long been passionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at-risk youth." this is just the latest in a long list of perks thomas has accepted from crow without disclosure, according to propublica. perks including luxury travel on crow's super yacht, private yet flights, and an undisclosed real estate transaction involving three properties owned by thomas and his relatives. "outfront" now, josh kaplan, one of the reporters who broke this story for propublica. wow, josh, what a story this

at supreme court ethical standards following recent reports of justices clarence thomas and neil gorsuchlation of current ethics rules. the senate judiciary committee hears from legal scholars, including two former district court judges from california and new york live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. on c-span two, the senate is back at 10:00 a.m. to consider more judicial nominations for district court in new jersey and new york. these ovens also stream live on the c-span now video app and online at span.org. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers to create lift centers so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to demoac

that justice clarence thomas accepted trips from a republican campaign donor and the justice neil gorsuch sold land to an earn to whose law firm has cases before the high court. watch the coverage of the senate judiciary hearing 10 a.m. on c-span, c-span now, a mobile video app or c-span.org. >> order your copy of the congressional directory at c-span shop.... she has also served as a member of c-span's advisor team, the networks periodic surveys of ranking us presidents class and jean metzger on both

and mike left colorado to come here to help confirm his friend, kneel gorsuch -- neil gorsuch. so that's going to be a great panel at the end of the day for all of you who want to watch that. lastly, we got brenda hankins. she founded her women's initiative. she was also one of the leaders of getting a universal reporting system for election integrity issues. i want to turn to this year's winner, ashley titus. when i asked the general counsel aaron clark for a quote on ashley, i had to cut it down because she was praising her so much. colorado is crucial to -- california is crucial to taking back the u.s. house. as the nrcc california lawyer, the california chair and lawyer for the california republican party. she organized statewide election integrity programs for years to ensure elections is clean as california can be. people forget one of the reasons for our success in 2020 in the u.s. house, despite president trump's lost, we learned how to ballot harvest in california. it's a terrible law but we have to work within the existing law because the democrats do. so thank you, a

with neil gorsuch, for years he owned a piece of land in colorado that he was trying to sell. he was unable to sell it. they had to lower the price a couple of times. within nine days of being confirmed as a supreme court justice, the property was purchased at a nice sum by the head of a major law firm that argues before the supreme court quite frequently. he listed a range of income he received through an llc, which was the name of the investment firm he set up to own the property. he did not divulge it was a land deal, he did not divulge the nature of income he was bringing in. he did not divulge the buyer. it was figured out by politico, which published a story in the last couple of weeks. this highlights the situation in terms of it being the wild west in terms of lack of disclosure by supreme court justices and sheds light on the way people can carry favor with justices as they currently exist. host: what is your priority for ethics rules? guest: there has been a bunch of reform proposals, as you can imagine with all of the press and revelations, lawmakers are getting int

politico reported, justice neil gorsuch sold property that he owned two ahead of a major law firm that often does business with the court. business insider found chief justice roberts wife made millions, and millions of dollars as a consultant for several law firms. some that have cases at the court. the chief justice, rsv peeing no to the hearing, and no other justices even showed. today, senate judiciary committee, chairman dick durbin, making his feelings about this abundantly clear. >> ethics cannot be simply left or the discretion of the nation's highest court. the court should have a code of conduct, with clear, and enforceable, rules. both justices, and the american people, no one condit crossing line. the highest court in the land, should not have the lowest ethical standard. we that reality is a crisis and public confidence in the supreme court. the status quo must change. >> throughout the hearing, party lines were crystal clear. >> this is an unseemly effort by the democratic left to destroy the legitimacy of the roberts court. if you want to talk about making the corner bet

he said cavanaugh and gorsuch, that you will reap the whirlwind. i guess we are reaping the whirlwind now, they are on their own unless this judicial recalcitrance stops. i hope we do not have to see another assassination attempt, i do not want to justice killed before this body will take judicial security seriously and stop its attempts to coerce an independent branch of government. >> since the assertion has been stated and repeated here, i want to make it clear that was the democrats who led the charge to pass the judicial security and privacy act last congress after the taking of the life of a judge at their home. the bill was held up on the senate floor for nearly one year by a, unfortunately. the cause of security for members of the judiciary is bipartisan. senator padilla. >> thank you, mr. chair. continuing this important and timely dialogue, as the supreme court itself stated, of almost equal concern as the danger of actual quid pro quo arrangements is the impact of the appearance of corruption. this case dealt with financial contributions

with the reporting that has had to deal with justice thomas and justice gorsuch these people didn't havee the court. that's an important distinction. whether there is more to this story that's out in the "washington post", we don't know yet. we're waiting to see if we can get a statement from the thomas's or the court or somebody close to them so we'll have more clarity on that. the fact is there are financial things that are amended all the times. justice jackson had to amend forms and justice sotomayor has done it as well. if the press wants to go after the issue of ethics at the supreme court let's make sure there is fair treatment on that question and vet everybody. >> aishah: she also came on and said the left is trying to force justice thomas to resign. we've been seeing a push at least from the senate judiciary committee trying to replace senator feinstein. what do you make of that? you've been following the justices for quite a while. are you hearing anything >> justice thomas is not going anywhere voluntarily. he is a fighter and done through much worse. the justices are subject

[abby[ neil gorsuch was president trump's first supreme court nominee, and he was taking a supreme courtally held open at the end of the obama administration for the next president. the justices that i'm going to appoint will be pro-life. they will have a conservative bent. donald trump was married three times. linked to porn stars. not the first logical choice for southern evangelicals. so the most important thing trump did to try to cement the allegiance of the cultural conservative vanguard of the republican party was to signal who he would pick for the supreme court. -so help me god. -congratulations. in both cases, they each got what they wanted. the conservative christian groups got the conservative supreme court. and donald trump got their votes to win the election. today, the president began interviewing possible nominees for the supreme court seat that will become open when justice anthony kennedy retires. president trump here nominates brett kavanaugh. [chris] brett kavanaugh was supposed to replace anthony kennedy. and that's a big deal because kennedy had always been the key

there is also neil gorsuch and the property he sold to a law firm ceo just nine days after his senate now there is chief justice john roberts, insider reporting his wife made over $10 million recruiting for elite law firms, at least one of whom argued a case before the supreme court. the senate judiciary committee is holding a hearing on all these ethics concerns tomorrow morning. i'm joined now by melissa murray, professor at in the new york university school of la, who clerked for justice sonia -- on the court of appeals for the second circuit. professor mary, it is so great to see. thank you so much for making time for us. your reaction to this news about chief justice roberts's wife, is it in the same category as the issues surrounding thomas and gorsuch? >> let me just say i think we have to be really careful here. i don't like the idea suggesting that supreme court spouse can't have a career. mrs. roberts had been a lawyer before her husband became the chief justice. she took this job as a legal recruiter, ostensibly to avoid any conflict, or the appearance of any conflicts by b

thomas' great nephew, this follows that crow purchased his mother's home and took him on justice gorsuch that had business before the court. senate democrats kon veepped a hearing to press for ethics' reforms. >> until there is an honest process, these messes will continue. the court has proven that it cannot police itself. william: reforms are necessary, many g.o.p. senators called the hearings are politically motivated. >> it's the democrats aren't winning every fight and they nd that reality intolerable. william: senate republicans have no interest in getting involved in raising the debt limit. >> this will be solved when the speaker and the speaker reach an agreement. it should be clear that the senate is not a relevantlayer this time. william: the treasury department estimates the u.s. department will run out of money as soon as june 1, this continues next tuesday at the white house when speaker mccarthy and senator mcconnell meet president biden. on thursday, there was another reminder of the extreme repercussions. four members of the proud boy were found guilty of seditious conspi

david: supreme court justice neil gorsuch unleashing on covid era mandates calling the covid-19 responseime history, end quote. this as we learn big progressive cities like new york, san fran, chicago suffering another year of declining population. back would our panel from the independent women's forum, patrice lee onwuka, former democratic party chairman scott bolden. obviously tax, regulatory, crime situation played into this but it was really those pandemic mandates that seemed to be the biggest cause of the exodus, no? >> i think they certainly played a big role in 2020 and early 2021. i mean let's not forget in blue area like maryland here where i am playgrounds were taped off. areas outside, skate parks were covered in sand in california. the draconian measures that were taken, not to forget the economic impact on small businesses, gyms forced to be closed. some couldn't have outdoor gym classes. it was wrong. i'm glad that justice gorsuch called that out because the lesson learned is frankly, a lot of progressive, you know, lawmakers realized they can use fear as a tool to expand

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you've got neil gorsuch, john roberts, now the subject of not-so-positive headlines. head of a law firm with business before the court, and roberts for his wife's finances. seriously, what is going on with the scotus conservatives? >> i think it's fair to say this exercise in self policing that the supreme court is supposed to be doing has failed. right? i mean, they don't have the same ethics laws that slightly lower courts do. and clearly, they can't stick to it. i would like to point out, in the same sort of court is elena kagan, who refused bagels from a -- because she felt it was unethically dicey. so, i don't think all the justices are doing this. but certainly, thomas is famous. and i would like to point out that thomas really changed the way he disclosed after 2004 piece in the l. a. times, which took him to task for some of this. so, i do think this was conscious. and he certainly knows what he is doing. >> renato, now that dianne feinstein is back in washington, democrats have the numbers to subpoena clarence thomas before the senate judiciary committee. i i

have -- there's been some stories about how two supreme court justices, sonia sotomayor, and neil gorsuchcuse themselves from cases involving a specific publishing company that has paid them lots of money in lucrative book deals. former justice stephen breyer, he did recuse himself. how do you see this? >> this involves a case -- several cases where penguin random house, the conglomerate that all three, justice stephen breyer, justice sonia sotomayor, and neil gorsuch all have big contracts with, contracts that they have disclosed over time, and two of them did not recuse themselves from cases that were on the list of many, many petitions coming to the court. this is something that fix court, a watchdog group, and then the daily wire had talked about, focused more on two of the justices. the reason stephen breyer -- it could have been frankly i don't know why they didn't recuse because they didn't say. we tried to ask them, why didn't you recuse yourself from cases? they were cases that were not heard by the court, and they did report their income. i do want to mention, though, jake, that

gorsuch for selling property to the head of a law firm with business before the court.on with the scotus conservatives. >> i think it's fair to say this exercise in self policing but the supreme court is what we doing has failed. they don't have the same laws that lower courts to. clearly, they can't stick to it. i would like to point out in the same sort of courage is alina keegan who refused bagels from a friend because she felt it was ethically dicey. i don't think all the justices are doing this. certainly, thomas -- i would like to point out the thomas really changed the way he disclosed after 2004 peace in the l.a. times. which took him to task for some of this. i think this was conscious. he certainly knows what he's doing. >> renato, now that diane feinstein is back in washington. democrats have the numbers to subpoena clarence thomas before the senate judiciary committee and -- i imagine he would fight that subpoena. again, two carrolls point. how does that get results. >> i actually think that that would not make it up to the supreme court. it be very interest

this comes after two justices, clarence thomas and neil gorsuch, have come under scrutiny after reportsing into their business dealings. the justices themselves will not be testifying and most notably absent chief justice john roberts who declined a request from committee chair dick durbin last week. joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. ali, what are we hearing from lawmakers this morning on the hill about supreme court ethics reform? >> reporter: yeah, ana, this is something we have seen bubbling in the last few weeks since the chairman of that committee, dick durbin, first sent a letter to chief justice roberts asking him to come in and testify because of those new allegations against sitting supreme court justices about undisclosed business dealingings that may run afoul of ethics concerns. they may run afoul of concerns but not actual rules. and that's the point of the committee hearing now, is to start the conversation on capitol hill about potential reforms to the supreme court's code of ethics. so far what we have heard and we're still in the opening ph

roberts' wife doing the legal recruiting, there's neil gorsuch's land deal.as a story lately about sotomayor and gorsuch not recusing from two cases they should have recused from. and part of the story here is this is why you have an ethics code. i mean, one reason you have it is to stop the terrible stuff that clarence thomas is doing. no ethics code would allow that. but the other reason you do it is to make sure that if you have a land deal, there are rules you can follow the rules, you can maybe have an independent investigator look at the deal if need be, and then once you have done all that, if reporters come looking at your land deal, you can say look, here are the rules, here's what the ethics monitor said, it's fine. the fact they don't have a code is hurting the court more than anything. and i suspect the reason why they refuse to do it is because clarence thomas has behaved so unethically throughout this that they can't write any kind of reasonable ethics code that wouldn't wind up sanctioning clarence thomas. >> yeah, there you go. and said what w