as graeme wood just point out, it's not just the u.s.-led coalition that's preparing, so is isis, trying to bait the west. reports today that isis fighters in mosul have burned down the public library there, which was filled with ancient texts that went back to the ottoman empire, including 8,000 rare books, reminiscent of what the taliban did. >> going back to the answer given there in the hearing i thought that was a telling as anything i've heard in a long time. the question was have you given the weapons -- we have not refused to give them to them. the truth s they can't get to the kurds because they can't get through baghdad because they're all fighting, because they always fight. >> there you have it. >> i mean jennifer, thanks a lot. the point s you have to send the weapons through baghdad because that's the government as recognized of the whole place. but the kurds see themselves as kurdistan up there and down in baghdad it's a different sect, so they're certainly not going to send the weapons up there. they pray they might turn

in the article "the atlantic's" cover story graeme wood, writes "yes isis has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the middle east and europe. but the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of islam." wood the author of "what isis really wants" joins me now from yale university where he is a lecture you are in political science. joining us from istanbul, a fellow from brookings institute for middle east policy. and here in new york peter beinart, city university of new york and cnn political commentator. thank you all. graeme, i should start by giving you the floor. i just discoursed on your article. the question i have really beyond what i mentioned was you insist the islamic state and isis is very islamic, fine. what does that change in terms of the strategy one adopts? i notice at the end of the article you end up endorsing pretty much obama's approach to isis. am i wrong? >> no, you're quite right. i think many aspects of obama's approach are exactly what i would t

wealth management at charles schwab. . >> we're back with graeme wood shadi hamid, peter beinart.in your article in the atlantic you distinguish between al qaeda and isis and its goals. you point out al qaeda had facial traditional kind of islamist goals. really we call them almost modern arab concerns. for example, the issue of israel. isis does not seem to have those. isis goals are more theological and they want to create a caliphate. they want to create true interpretation of sharia. does israel fit in at all? how does isis think about it? >> certainly isis is no fan of israel. but israel's many point for isis is certainly it's propaganda value, also its place in the apocalypse. isis believes it's foretold armies of islam will eventually rally around jerusalem after being defeated actually. they believe after conquering a large area of land eventually reduced to a core of 5,000 fighters around jerusalem. that's one of the most common ways jerusalem is referred to in the propaganda of isis. >> shadi, when i listen to what isis is propagating, increasingly sectarian nature sunni

we are joined by "atlantic" contributor graeme wood who recently posted "what isis really want ss." what attracts some people to isis, you write that western recruits are, quote, ready to give up everything at home for a shot at paradise in the worst place on earth. explain that. what is that appeal? >> these people were trying to leave the united states. they may have been looking for ways to attack the united states, but they really wanted to go to syria in the islamic state, because they think that to fulfill their destiny as muslims and to really live the religion they believe they have to be in an islamic state. we don't know what the motivations of these particular people were, but that is why they usually go there. >> how do you begin to compete with that organization that's promising promising, and you call it kind of a death cult and promise nothing less than paradise to the people they recruit? >> i think you have to acknowledge exactly what is being offered. and then show it's not actually there. if they think they have a utopia that they're going to, you can show them th

it's a fascinating discussion, graeme wood. i recommend people should read your article whether they agree or not. it's interesting. graeme wood with "the atlantic." appreciate it. >>> three things to know on this thursday. a federal appeals court heard arguments today to move the trial of boston marathon bombing suspect tsarnaev out of massachusetts. tsarnaev's attorneys argue 85% of potential jurors believe tsarnaev is guilty or have some connection to the bombing and its aftermath. the original judge already turned down three requests from defense attorneys to move the trial. >>> in prescott arizona, hundreds of people came out last night to remember kayla mueller, the 26-year-old american aide worker who died in isis captivity. several of kayla's friends also posted a tribute video on youtube which includes this message from kayla. >> i hope i never forget that everything happens for a reason and that nothing should be a regret, and that you're always learning about yourself through other people and you're always learning a

joining me now is graeme wood. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> you talk about it basically being a kind of apocalypse look. >> yes, you can see that, it's not just one of the rhetorical modes that isis uses, it is really the only one. it was laced with apacalypic messages. >> one of the things that i learned from the article, they talk about a warning to rome, that actually this final confrontation, end of day battles happens in syria. >> it is the sight of a major show down battle that will happen. the crusaders will be defeated and rome will fall to the islamic state. >> there seem to be -- i'm not there. i'm not reporting from the ground there, but from all that i have been reading and talking to people who are there, there is sort of two things happening, right? there is the kind of propaganda wing, the ideology, and then there are sunni militants. i wonder how much it is fused together and how much we know. >> they're closely connected. you certainly have a lot of sophistication. and you also have,

. >> graeme wood the atlantic appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> maureen dowd, believe it or not "new york times," he mentions bill's friendship with convicted pedophile jeffrey epstein. speaking of 2016 weekly standard steve hayes handicaps the gop field. he's here with more to explain. when heartburn comes creeping up on you... fight back with relief so smooth... ...it's fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue ...and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum, tum tum tum...♪ smoothies! only from tums. you exercise. you choose the salad. occasionally. but staying well - physically, financially, emotionally - its hard on your own. so cigna's got your back and your knees, 24/7. cigna's there to answer your questions. or when you need some coaching. in sickness and in health, cigna's there, helping you to get well and stay well. that's having a partner, who's with you all the way. cigna. apples may fall, but the apples of your cheeks don't have to. defy gravity with juvÉderm voluma®. the first and only injectable gel approved by the fda to instantly add

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. >> everybody i think has read the atlantic article by graeme wood talking about really what isis is all about. they require territory. does defeat mean denial of territory? >> ultimate, of course it does. >> so what number would be left? >> look, -- >> i'm trying to get some sort of sense here. spent i can't tell you whether a few notches left after world war ii? sure. to the war in and was unconditional surrender? he would rebuild germany and move on with japan? yes. but were there some nazis around with you bed. will there be some members lingered around as the art of other extremist groups? most likely but they will suffer the same fate. the point is as an organization, as an entity, as a viable sort of conglomerated threat to the united states and the west and the rest of the world it will be destroyed. >> pretty well decimated okay. do you agree with milton exports that to achieve that will require ground forces of sometimes? >> i believe it will require some type of forces on the ground. >> now, if it's -- >> not ours but sometime. >> so you've got 30, 40,000 members of isil r

graeme wood thank you so much for coming on. >>> over to chris. >>> breaking news eastern ukraine, there's supposed to be a cease-fire. but word that some pro government forces are pulling out of a strategic city after clashes with rebels. cnn international correspondent nick paton walsh joins with us more. >> we're hearing now from the ukrainian government the admission that they've withdrawn 18% of their forces from a the strategy city of debaltseve. this is going to be the key flash-point. clearly the forces have prevailed and we've seeing bedraggled-looking ukrainian forces coming out. it's happening because it's day four of a cease-fire. it doesn't feel like a cease-fire when we hear the shelling. the question is what happens next? does it mean the end of the cease-fire or do some on the separatist side do they continue to take more territory. the question is does this slow down the violence or do we see yet another econgratulation. back to you. >> nick paton walsh, thank you for scrambling your report for us. >>> 11.4 million, that's how many americans have signed up for private heal