we talked about gramsci. we drove to boston. >> gramsci being the italian philosopher. >> the italian philosopher. >> the pessimism of the -- >> of the intellect and optimism of the world. >> right. >> right? i mean, we -- >> you see the world as it is, but then you act as if you can change the world. >> exactly. i mean, we tried to find ways to both enliven the neighborhoods we lived in. but at the same time, we knew that that wasn't enough. that there was a world beyond our neighborhood, and that world had all kinds of things for us to learn. and we were excited about that. i mean, we drank, danced and talked. that's what we did. >> and i assume there were some other more private activities. >> and there was more private activity. >> you know, you are a buoyant man, and yet you describe what you call a shift away from the hope that accompanies the living, to a politics of cynicism and despair. >> yeah. >> what leads you to this? >> what leads me to this is something that we mentioned earlier, and that is, w

gramsci and he had the idea that part really rules the world was mindsets was he the ology and in order to change things you needed to change mindsets he call it hey community and i thought that that could be dealt with only through party called contract money. and to a large extent we are we are irrelevant we are just. the wind. but if we see ourselves as part of an ongoing counter had to many against the prevailing ideology of neo liberalism then over time if enough people do it things will change and i don't think there's any prospect of that happening of any imminent change it will be a generation you say it's going to change but is it going to change for better or for the worse because again if we take up your personal example of the government tapping your phones and you know you're seeing them later on thirty years later the governments you know some governments cannot afford to do that not only in or against some prominent journalist but also against them has a state and they don't have anything to fear i mean i'm sure you're aware of the recent n.s.a. scandal isn't that ultimat