so we get to gravanis, there's nothing to gravanis compared to those things. the biggest issue with gravanis over the years, when i started in the early 90's is there was very little information out there and it was difficult to come up with consistent information. and i have dedicated a huge amount of my career to creating consistent information that we can take into court. this is kind of a good example because i have an hour to speak up here. anybody who has heard me speak knows an hour is not a whole lot of time for me. but when you good to court, you are going to be in the same situation. when i go to testify in court to take these guys to trial, your time is going to be very limited. in that time, you're going to have to go in there and present simple, understandable concepts as to what is the foundation of your case and you have to go in there and do that to educate the jury and to educate the judge. a lot of these people and the judge have never been in front and had to deal with a gravanis type case. the information should be consistent. you have defe

and so i ran an anti-gravanis, i hire 14, 15, 16-year-olds and we go out in the weekends to abate gravanis and i floated this idea to my kids, they are interns now, they're 20, i'm old. they wrote the 2000 verse, that lingo. >> we keep asking them, if that doesn't sound right, give me a g-rated version that we can take to the schools. >> the new answers are so great. >> it's like jimi hendrix. never the same way twice. >> a lot of organic happenings back in the 70's. >> in response to the high school, going after high school, i think that that is a great idea. i remember high school. >> yeah, me too. >> it wasn't that long ago for me and i remember not caring. it's not that i didn't understand the message but it was that i didn't care enough that the message went right over my head and through my ears. elementary school kids don't do that. believe it or not they will pause and they will cry. and middle school. you guys know that. they understand, the message sinks in. i do encourage lots of communities it try and take it to their high schoolers and i don't mind being pointed out and booed

and so i ran an anti-gravanis, i hire 14, 15, 16-year-olds and we go out in the weekends to abate gravanis and i floated this idea to my kids, they are interns now, they're 20, i'm old. they wrote the 2000 verse, that lingo. >> we keep asking them, if that doesn't sound right, give me a g-rated version that we can take to the schools. >> the new answers are so great. >> it's like jimi hendrix. never the same way twice. >> a lot of organic happenings back

. >> our personal on gravanis, the whole thing is it's permission based. now, i know a lot of artists go out there and do gravanis art with permission, murals, commissioned art. for us that's not a big deal. there are a lot of murals in sacramento and san francisco that is all permission based. for us, we're kind of a sdae zero tolerance city in sacramento. you go out and you vandalize something, that's a crime. that's how we view that in our city.

. >> our personal on gravanis, the whole thing is it's permission based. now, i know a lot of artists go out there and do gravanis art with permission, murals, commissioned art. for us that's not a big deal. there are a lot of murals in sacramento and san francisco that is all permission based. for us, we're kind of a sdae zero tolerance city in sacramento. you go out and you vandalize something, that's a crime. that's how we view that in our city. >> i tell them it's art, you got to express yourself but you cannot damage other people's property. i usually say how many of you have a little brother or sister, you don't want to teach them to steal. how do you feel when they mess up your stuff? that's how i approach it. >> also we try to leave that at the end where tibo, played by anthony over here, that's basically how the character evolves throughout the play, being this leader of this crew and, you know, he kind of teaches everybody but says, yeah, you have a leader but i ain't going to do what you are going to do. robert over here who plays damage, he's t

something as simple as drawing on your desk is gravanis because there are people paid to clean off the desk and now they ain't doing that, the fact that when we go to these schools and when we see these kids they always have answers ready for us as far as the last time they saw us, after the show, oh, yeah, i'm not going to do this. >> every semester. and there's some schools that won't let us come in. it's really strange. oh, no, our kids don't do that. it's true. >> i've been in the show plenty of times, starting in 06 -- it was 06 -- and i've done this show numerous times. and don't get it twisted, yes, we are in sacramento and i have been staying in the good part of the city, you know what i mean? and three different bad parts of the city, we've gone to, probably, 6 schools in those bad cities and occasionally you get those, sometimes you see those kids that when they are coming into the cafeteria or the gym, multi purpose room, what have you, they are always like talking the whole time, you know? and still to this day i see like three of those kids from those kids that are not --

program today will basically be on training and expertise, being able to go out, understand the gravanis culture and then take it to court and get a successful prosecution. just a little background, i'm not going to read it all. i pretty much go by sergeant because i was only a lieutenant the last 3 months and i found out if you google me under lieutenant you find something. i stick with sergeant because i have about 14 years on google for that. i spent about 28 years as a police officer for the city of san bernardino, california, about 80 miles outside los angeles. among other things i'm recognized as an expert on graffiti in california superior court. without reading all this i want to let you know that i am well rounded, i was supervisor of the unit to be supervisor of a multi agency dealing with it to being executive director for the entire state, california graffiti association of california. so i have a fair amount of background. i first became involved in graffiti back in 1991 when i was told in the gang unit that i was going to be a two-week assignment to deal with these guys cal